This posting can be found at: http://boston.craigslist.org/tce/18637120.html To be removed from this mailing list please visit: http://www.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/emailSubscriber.cgi ____________________________________________________________ Copyright (c) 2003 craigslist ------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "No matter how much cats fight, DK KD there always seem to be plenty of kittens." DDDD - Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865) From david at thekramers.net Mon Nov 3 02:01:45 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:01:45 -0500 Subject: ipchains --> iptables Message-ID: <200311030201.45735.david@thekramers.net> I'm looking for a recent doc on how to move from ipchains to iptables, and not finding anythign less than 3 or so years old. Anyone have a lead on this? Alternately, if there are easy tools for *REAL GEEKS* to configure iptables with fine-grain control (a la. RLZ's website for ipchains at http://www.linux-firewall-tools.com/, not Red Hat's "do you want a little security or a lot of security" idiotic script), I would be willing to start from scratch. ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "Love is like pi DK KD -- natural, irrational, and very important." DDDD -Lisa Hoffman From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 3 19:58:21 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:58:21 -0500 Subject: potential Linux Kernel developer job posting... Message-ID: <20031103195821.421cd68c.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I was sent this from Gregg. If you think you are qualified, please contact Gregg directly. Please mention the BLU. Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:25:38 -0500 From: "Gregg Ruoti" To: Subject: potential Linux Kernel developer job posting... Job Title: Linux Kernel Software Engineer (in a SAN/NAS environment) Required: Linux kernel knowledge and experience in filesystems, drivers, and memory management. The candidate should have knowledge of network storage systems (SAN & NAS). Experience with large scalable data center management applications is desired. Excellent C/C++ skills are required as well as good written and verbal skills. Ability to & desire to work in a very strong, team-driven environment. Strong experience in other UNIX kernel architectures. Role: This position is a very visible, senior hands-on member of a very high-performance team that will extend the scope of virtual servers to include additional architectures, optimization of server deployment, and enhance the feature set to improve process/state management & reporting, expand the capabilities of the software deployment paradigm, and further abstract the details of management tasks from the workflow design. The specific team within this organization offers a great opportunity to apply Linux to challenging high-end commercial applications to a degree that hasn't been done yet. Can offer some relocation assistance. Job Location: SFO, CA Contact Information: Gregg Ruoti , Director Business Development TransQuest Ventures, Inc. Phone: (908) 684-3660 E-mail: greggr at transquest.com Web site: http://http://www.transquest.com/ Preferred method of contact: *email *phone - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/pvmt+wA+1cUGHqkRAh9OAJwJ2ZZ7YUNy6YWUxBZH4CVytLpWZgCfeDOw E3qfnOY7Nlp4rkyDIYWBELE= =i4le -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Logosidebar.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3957 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: beyondbusinesssig.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ron.peterson at yellowbank.com Mon Nov 3 21:00:57 2003 From: ron.peterson at yellowbank.com (ron.peterson at yellowbank.com) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:00:57 -0500 Subject: ipchains --> iptables In-Reply-To: <200311030201.45735.david@thekramers.net> References: <200311030201.45735.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031104020057.GA13591@yellowbank.com> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 02:01:45AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > Alternately, if there are easy tools for *REAL GEEKS* to configure iptables > with fine-grain control (a la. RLZ's website for ipchains at > http://www.linux-firewall-tools.com/, not Red Hat's "do you want a little > security or a lot of security" idiotic script), I would be willing to start > from scratch. Emacs. Come on, you throw an easy softball like that, what do you expect? :) -- Ron Peterson -o) 87 Taylor Street /\\ Granby, MA 01033 _\_v https://www.yellowbank.com/ ---- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Tue Nov 4 06:40:52 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:40:52 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! Message-ID: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> Mandrake, anyone? A little Debian, perhaps? RedHat's going away... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1371164,00.asp From jullrich at euclidian.com Tue Nov 4 06:58:52 2003 From: jullrich at euclidian.com (Johannes Ullrich) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:58:52 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> Message-ID: <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 06:40, Glenn Burkhardt wrote: > Mandrake, anyone? A little Debian, perhaps? RedHat's going away... > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1371164,00.asp Well, they will still have 'Fedora', which I guess is going to replace the current consumer RedHat distro. AFAIK, they will still put together ISO images on a regular basis as part of the Fedora project. I hope it will work out. Otherwise, I guess there is still SuSe. So what are the 'major' distributions left? Suse, Mandrake, Debian? With only Suse being found in retail stores (CompUSA and such)? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Johannes Ullrich jullrich at euclidian.com pgp key: http://johannes.homepc.org/PGPKEYS -------------------------------------------------------------- "We regret to inform you that we do not enable any of the security functions within the routers that we install." support at covad.net -------------------------------------------------------------- From colet at code-energy.com Tue Nov 4 07:34:58 2003 From: colet at code-energy.com (Cole Tuininga) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:34:58 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> Message-ID: <1067949298.2608.9.camel@trogdor> On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 06:58, Johannes Ullrich wrote: > Otherwise, I guess there is still SuSe. So what are > the 'major' distributions left? > > Suse, Mandrake, Debian? I'm looking for a little education here. It may come across as flame bait, I ask folks not to mistake my ignorance as such. 8) I hear a lot of folks (particularly on this list) who are enamored with Suse. However, to me it seems kind of like a pain. Here are the things that I "think" I know about it that turn me off from trying it. If any are wrong or could even just be looked at from a different viewpoint, I'd love to hear about it. 1) You can't get the latest version for free. If you want the latest greatest version, you must pay for it? 2) Updates are not free. Admittedly, Red Hat doesn't do updates for free either, but at least there is either apt for rpm, or you could use the red carpet tools. 3) Init scripts are BSD style rather than SysV. 4) Package management is lacking and the tool (yast, IIRC?) most used for pm is a little cryptic. If any or all of these are wrong, I'd love to hear about it. Heck, those who believe in Suse's superiority for other reasons are welcomed to evangelize. Thanks in advance. -- Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. Cole Tuininga Lead Developer Code Energy, Inc colet at code-energy.com PGP Key ID: 0x43E5755D From david at thekramers.net Tue Nov 4 08:16:13 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:16:13 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> Message-ID: <200311040816.13408.david@thekramers.net> On Tuesday 04 November 2003 06:40, Glenn Burkhardt wrote: > Mandrake, anyone? A little Debian, perhaps? RedHat's going away... > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1371164,00.asp This article it written by someone who is either woefully uninformed or willfully deceiving. Much publicity and openness surrounded the whole merging of the Fedora Project with the Red Hat personal Linux. While "Red Hat does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line", they will be working with Fedora to essentially rebrand their personal product as Fedora Linux. No quotes from Red Hat in this article contradict that. In fact, they NEED to have a hand in a freely-distributed version of Linux, because that is essentially the beta release for their enterprise products. They give it to Mikey, see if he likes it, and after it's mature they sell it for money. Having said that, the personal edition is what matters to me, and clearly their commitment to it has greatly diminished. If they're desupporting amost all releases within two months, and the last remaining one a few months after that, there's not much incentive to use it even if it's free, eh? No more official updates and security patches? No thanks. Wait a minute. Did I talk about this and forshadow it a few weeks ago on this very list? Why, Yes! Will I say "I told you so". Most assuredly. -- DDDD DK KD An optimist thinks the glass is half full. DKK D A pessimist thinks a glass is half empty. DK KD The software engineer thinks the glass is twice as big DDDD as it needs to be. Colin Walls From bill at billhorne.homelinux.org Tue Nov 4 08:17:55 2003 From: bill at billhorne.homelinux.org (Bill Horne) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:17:55 -0500 Subject: Sendmail and DNSBL Message-ID: <20031104081755.A12622@billhorne.homelinux.org> I've set up Sendmail to use a couple of DNSBL lists, and so far it seems to be working, because the only unsolicited mail I'm getting is the Sven virus :-<. However, I'd like to see how often the reject are going out, and would like to know if/how log entries are done for DNSBL rejects from Sendmail. If they're not on by default, please tell me how to enable them. TIA. Bill Horne 781 784-7287 From mark at buttery.org Tue Nov 4 07:19:37 2003 From: mark at buttery.org (Mark J. Dulcey) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:19:37 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <1067949298.2608.9.camel@trogdor> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> <1067949298.2608.9.camel@trogdor> Message-ID: <3FA79959.7060305@buttery.org> Cole Tuininga wrote: > 1) You can't get the latest version for free. If you want the latest > greatest version, you must pay for it? Yes and no. They don't offer ISO downloads of the distribution, nor do they allow commercial distributors to make cheap copies of it. On the other hands, they do permit non-profit small-scale duplication; in other words, you can make copies for your friends or your user group. And you can install the entire distribution via FTP without cost. > 2) Updates are not free. Admittedly, Red Hat doesn't do updates for > free either, but at least there is either apt for rpm, or you could use > the red carpet tools. YOU (YaST Online Update) service IS free. There is no subscription program for it. The only catch is that I have found suse.com to be overloaded; gwdg.de has been a better source of the updates for me. > 3) Init scripts are BSD style rather than SysV. Incorrect. SuSE has used the SysV style scripts for as long as I have been using it. > 4) Package management is lacking and the tool (yast, IIRC?) most used > for pm is a little cryptic. I like YaST2, but not everyone does. I have never found it cryptic, and it does have a nice search tool for packages. > If any or all of these are wrong, I'd love to hear about it. Heck, > those who believe in Suse's superiority for other reasons are welcomed > to evangelize. Things I like about SuSE: 1. The manual. The writing is a bit awkward at times, since it has been translated from German, but it's more complete than the manuals that come with other distributions. 2. Completeness of the distribution. Just about everything you might ever want is on the discs. (SuSE Professional is now up to TWO DVD-ROMs.) Unlike Red Hat, they don't insist on ideological purity; the distribution includes non-open-source software that you can install if you want to. 3. Because it's a German (i.e., non-US) distribution, it includes things that US law doesn't permit. Although they're left off the discs they distribute here, you can easily download the RPMs from their non-US sites. Things like the DVD playback plugin for Xine, for instance, and SSH before the RSA patent ran out. (Clarification: SuSE comes in at least two flavors: US and international. The US version lacks the offending packages, and the default language in the installer is English rather than German. Only the US version is sold here. I say "at least two" because there may be additional localized versions with other default languages that I don't know about.) 4. The convenience of installing from DVD-ROM. No disc changing, so you can just walk away during the install rather than hanging around to feed discs to the computer. The second disc only has source packages, so you never need it in a normal installation. 5. In my experience, it upgrades very cleanly, more so than Red Hat. You can just upgrade your SuSE system without expecting to have to fix half a dozen things after doing it. 6. It's solid out of the box - again, much more so than Red Hat. RH has had cases where some packages were just plain broken in the initial release; getting the updated ones was mandatory. 7. They don't muck around with the appearance of KDE (much). SuSE does add its own menu (though keeping all the standard ones), and they provde their own wallpaper as the default background for regular users. (If you're logged in as root, you get a different default background with big warning symbols and bombs.) But these small changes are nothing like the abomination called Bluecurve. 8. Geeko, the SuSE chameleon, is cute :) They gave away stuffed Geekos at LinuxWorld last January, and I have one. No, you can't have it. Things I don't like: 1. Installing packages from non-SuSE sources is sometimes a pain, because they have been built for Red Hat. For instance, if you want to use Java builds from Sun or Mozilla builds from mozilla.org, you have to work a bit harder than if you were using a Red Hat system. 2. The SuSEconfig system (rc.config and its friends) is a bit of a tangle. That may be the thing you were confusing with the BSD-style init, since it's a single centralized file. But it is used to automatically GENERATE some of the startup scripts; it doesn't act as one itself. Ambivalent issue: it tends to be a bit farther away fom the bleeding edge than some other distributions. Good if you want a stable system; bad if you want to try out the very latest stuff. From rrmalloy at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 08:28:47 2003 From: rrmalloy at comcast.net (rrmalloy at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:28:47 +0000 Subject: Novell Buys Suse was --- A distribution bytes the dust! Message-ID: <110420031328.25169.23a6@comcast.net> Perhaps more interesting NEW YORK, Nov 4 (Reuters) - Novell Inc. (NasdaqNM:NOVL - News) said Tuesday it agreed to acquire Linux software developer Suse Linux AG of Germany for $210 million cash, in the latest push by the business software maker into the emerging market. Novell, of Provo, Utah, also said International Business Machines Corp. (NYSE:IBM - News), a major backer of Linux software, plans to make a $50 million investment in Novell convertible preferred stock. From bill at billhorne.homelinux.org Tue Nov 4 08:32:47 2003 From: bill at billhorne.homelinux.org (Bill Horne) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:32:47 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <200311040816.13408.david@thekramers.net>; from david@thekramers.net on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:16:13AM -0500 References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <200311040816.13408.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031104083247.A12671@billhorne.homelinux.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:16:13AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: [snip] > Having said that, the personal edition is what matters to me, and clearly > their commitment to it has greatly diminished. If they're desupporting > amost all releases within two months, and the last remaining one a few > months after that, there's not much incentive to use it even if it's free, > eh? No more official updates and security patches? No thanks. IMNSHO, the BLU could make a boatload of converts by supporting 7.1, et al, with our own "maintenance" releases. Bill From jullrich at euclidian.com Tue Nov 4 08:31:08 2003 From: jullrich at euclidian.com (Johannes Ullrich) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:31:08 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <1067949298.2608.9.camel@trogdor> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> <1067949298.2608.9.camel@trogdor> Message-ID: <1067952668.6037.483.camel@bart> > It may come across as flame bait Ok. I am taking the bait ;-) As far as Suse is concerned: I did try it seriously this spring as 8.2 came out (I bought the boxed version and installed it). The reason I dropped it for RedHat 9 is mostly that I am an old time RedHat user. My gripes with Suse: - Its KDE centric, not Gnome (like RedHat). At the time, Ximian had no "Ximian Desktop" for Suse 8.2 - Tools I like (Evolution, Mozilla) didn't work as well as they did with RedHat. Again a result of the KDE influence I assume. > 1) You can't get the latest version for free. If you want the latest > greatest version, you must pay for it? SuSe, unlike RedHat, does not offer free ISO images. However, all the packages are downloadable, and I think there are instruction about how to go about installing from scratch using the ftp site. > 2) Updates are not free. Updates within the version are free. For updates to the next version, see my first comment: While you will not get free ISOs, you will be able to upgrade via ftp package by package. > 3) Init scripts are BSD style rather than SysV. rather a matter of preference :-/ > 4) Package management is lacking and the tool (yast, IIRC?) most used > for pm is a little cryptic. I actually like 'yast'. It may even be a tad better then the 'up2date' tool. Yast is more in line with 'Red Carpet' (Ximian "packet manager") However, unlike Debian, its not as easy to compile everything from source. Unless you got the 'srpm' rebuild process down, which I find is not harder/much different then doing it the Debian/BSD way. Overall, my main issue with Suse is (a) KDE centric, which is a matter of preferences, and (b) as a more technical issue I find that Suse includes too many packages that do not interoperate well. While RedHat includes less packages, I find them to be more solid then the Suse packages. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Johannes Ullrich jullrich at euclidian.com pgp key: http://johannes.homepc.org/PGPKEYS -------------------------------------------------------------- "We regret to inform you that we do not enable any of the security functions within the routers that we install." support at covad.net -------------------------------------------------------------- From bill at billhorne.homelinux.org Tue Nov 4 08:49:33 2003 From: bill at billhorne.homelinux.org (Bill Horne) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:49:33 -0500 Subject: Novell Buys Suse was --- A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <110420031328.25169.23a6@comcast.net>; from rrmalloy@comcast.net on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:28:47PM +0000 References: <110420031328.25169.23a6@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031104084933.B12671@billhorne.homelinux.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:28:47PM +0000, rrmalloy at comcast.net wrote: > Perhaps more interesting > NEW YORK, Nov 4 (Reuters) - Novell Inc. (NasdaqNM:NOVL - News) said > Tuesday it agreed to acquire Linux software developer Suse Linux AG > of Germany for $210 million cash, in the latest push by the business > software maker into the emerging market. The Good News: SCO is an amateur in legal wrangling compared to Novell. The Bad News: The boys in Provo play for real, and they like to win. Look for quick implementation of M$-like "embrace, extend, and extinguish" policies: if there's a way to lock users into paid versions of SuSe, they'll find it, be it proprietary extensions, trade secrets, or trademark fights. > Novell, of Provo, Utah, also said International Business Machines > Corp. (NYSE:IBM - News), a major backer of Linux software, plans to > make a $50 million investment in Novell convertible preferred stock. Sounds like IBM is offloading the Linux work to Novell: maybe RedHat priced themselves out of the market? It's a win-win-win for Armonk: a pin in Bill Gates' doll (thanks for OS/2, Bill ...), a warning to RedHat not to get too big for its britches, and a stake in Novell's existing product lines and patent pool. FWIW. YMMV. Bill From david at thekramers.net Tue Nov 4 09:09:37 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:09:37 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <20031104083247.A12671@billhorne.homelinux.org> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <200311040816.13408.david@thekramers.net> <20031104083247.A12671@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <200311040909.37680.david@thekramers.net> On Tuesday 04 November 2003 08:32, Bill Horne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:16:13AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > [snip] > > > Having said that, the personal edition is what matters to me, and > > clearly their commitment to it has greatly diminished. If they're > > desupporting amost all releases within two months, and the last > > remaining one a few months after that, there's not much incentive to > > use it even if it's free, eh? No more official updates and security > > patches? No thanks. > > IMNSHO, the BLU could make a boatload of converts by supporting 7.1, > et al, with our own "maintenance" releases. ##### ##### ###### # # # # # # # # # # # # #### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ##### ##### ###### ### ##### ## # # # # ### ##### ### # # # # ## ## ## ## # # ### # # # # # ## # # ## # # # ### # # ###### # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ### ##### # # # # # # ### # ### All I want is to install a distro of Linux that is fairly modern and will be supported for a few months! I can't take this! ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "There are things that are so serious that you can only DK KD joke about them." DDDD -Heisenberg From mark at buttery.org Tue Nov 4 09:22:44 2003 From: mark at buttery.org (Mark J. Dulcey) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:22:44 -0500 Subject: Novell Buys Suse was --- A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <110420031328.25169.23a6@comcast.net> References: <110420031328.25169.23a6@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FA7B634.8070509@buttery.org> rrmalloy at comcast.net wrote: Terrible, terrible news. First, Novell has a HORRIBLE track record with acquisitions. Look at what happened with WordPerfect and Unix Systems Laboratories. Then there was the failed Novell/Borland merger attempt and the various ties with Corel; not much success there, either. Second, this makes SuSE a US company. That probably means that the distribution will have to adhere to US rules. But it also makes the SCO fight that much more intramural. Novell, remember, is the former owner of Unix Systems Laboratories (makers of UnixWare), and Caldera (now SCO) is a Novell spinoff. So this means that they have past ties to BOTH parents of the current SCO. That could get entertaining... Meanwhile, maybe it's time to have a closer look at Gentoo... From sweetser at TheWorld.com Tue Nov 4 09:36:01 2003 From: sweetser at TheWorld.com (Doug Sweetser) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:36:01 -0500 Subject: Novell Buys Suse was --- A distribution bytes the dust! Message-ID: <200311041425.hA4EPnRf001641@TheWorld.com> Hello: I change very slowly. I still mostly use thing I learned under the age of 10: reading, writing, and arithmatic. The only new worthwhile things since that age are sex and drinking. In choosing computers, I want them to reflect my pace of growth, call it full of history or sloth. I learned Unix commands in the early eighties, and used emacs back then. I am typing this email in emacs right now and it will get filed away by mh, keeping the same file structure as most other files under my home directory. I did spend time working with graphics on Macs, and of course with Windows because it could not be avoided, but I don't want to relearn machines, different words/actions to get the same thing done. I feel the same way about distributions. I don't want to relearn things. I want a system that I think will be around in a decade. I have to bet on Novell/Suse, Enterprise Linux, or open source Debian. I think the open source distribution will have the longest life, and it is my distribution of choice. For me, installation is a rare event. It is maintainence that is the big cost. The way apt-get deals with dependencies is what seals it for me. doug From alfred.j.wheeler at verizon.net Tue Nov 4 09:38:11 2003 From: alfred.j.wheeler at verizon.net (Alfred Wheeler) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:38:11 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <200311040909.37680.david@thekramers.net> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <200311040816.13408.david@thekramers.net> <20031104083247.A12671@billhorne.homelinux.org> <200311040909.37680.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <3FA7B9D3.6000202@verizon.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Now that is "loud." I could almost hear that! :-) For my part, I like Slackware. It seems to be a conservative implementation of Linux. A reservation: I cannot put the time in to implement GnuCash on it. There seems to be a lot of foundation work needed. I have my Slackware running on 166MHz with 128M, so it feels a bit slow. I will get into the Gentoo 'brand' of Linux OS whenever I get a cheap laptop with sufficient power. It seems like that will be forever from now, but I sense that it will be worth the wait. David Kramer wrote: >On Tuesday 04 November 2003 08:32, Bill Horne wrote: > > >>On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:16:13AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: >>[snip] >> >> >> >>>Having said that, the personal edition is what matters to me, and >>>clearly their commitment to it has greatly diminished. If they're >>>desupporting amost all releases within two months, and the last >>>remaining one a few months after that, there's not much incentive to >>>use it even if it's free, eh? No more official updates and security >>>patches? No thanks. >>> >>> >>IMNSHO, the BLU could make a boatload of converts by supporting 7.1, >>et al, with our own "maintenance" releases. >> >> > > ##### ##### ###### ># # # # # # ># # # # # ># #### # # # # ># # # # # # ># # # # # # > ##### ##### ###### > > ### > ##### ## # # # # ### ##### ### > # # # # ## ## ## ## # # ### > # # # # # ## # # ## # # # ### > # # ###### # # # # # # > # # # # # # # # # # ### > ##### # # # # # # ### # ### > >All I want is to install a distro of Linux that is fairly modern and will be >supported for a few months! > >I can't take this! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net >DK KD >DKK D "There are things that are so serious that you can only >DK KD joke about them." >DDDD -Heisenberg >_______________________________________________ >Discuss mailing list >Discuss at blu.org >http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/p7naXjIln7HVI6IRApCtAKCImHgqfZB9rxqOj54SzVf2iziWwgCeIIlp 49r2z6/oJeQSJGfj0EkwRs8= =gp0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bconway at alum.wpi.edu Tue Nov 4 10:54:46 2003 From: bconway at alum.wpi.edu (Brian J. Conway) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:54:46 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> Message-ID: <20031104105446.77761d56.bconway@alum.wpi.edu> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:58:52 -0500 Johannes Ullrich wrote: > Well, they will still have 'Fedora', which I guess is going to replace > the current consumer RedHat distro. Doesn't sound like their CEO has much faith in it for the imminent future, though: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39117575,00.htm > With only Suse being found in retail stores (CompUSA and such)? Mandrake box sets are sold in CompUSA, BestBuy, etc. I believe they are planning on continuing to do so. Brian J. Conway bconway at alum.wpi.edu "LINUX is obsolete" - Andrew S. Tanenbaum, creator of Minix - Jan 29, 1992 From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Tue Nov 4 11:20:13 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:20:13 +0000 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <200311040909.37680.david@thekramers.net> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <200311040816.13408.david@thekramers.net> <20031104083247.A12671@billhorne.homelinux.org> <200311040909.37680.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031104162013.GI22190@tao.merseine.nu> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:09:37AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > All I want is to install a distro of Linux that is fairly modern and will be > supported for a few months! > > I can't take this! So, howzabout Debian? -dsr- From bob at sinister.com Tue Nov 4 12:17:49 2003 From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:17:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <20031104162013.GI22190@tao.merseine.nu> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:09:37AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > > All I want is to install a distro of Linux that is fairly modern and will be > > supported for a few months! > > > > I can't take this! > > So, howzabout Debian? So, how about it? I've been using it for a while, and while there are some things that I really like about it, there's a long way to go. Maybe People will get sick of the SUE/RedHat Bulllsh1t and switch to debian. What works is that it is stable, and the apt stuff works pretty well. You can set up a debian box, set it up to get the stable patches through apt-cron, and pretty much forget about it for a good, long time. What's un-nice about it is that the stable releases are lacking a lot of things, such as support for 802.11 cards, and that certain things have remained broken, such as a problem with old, isa based pcmcia adapters. Another bad thing is the bloatware -- why a server has to have all this crud related to X11 I do not know. And emacs -- don't mean to get in a religious war here but why is this in the default install? There are also some real problems with a clunky install, with package collisions (mtr and mtr-tiny) resolvable just by doing the default thing, but unnerving. I think that the debian project needs a dose of project philosophy, and here's mine: The battle for stability is a battle for simplicity: for the sake of fewer factors to account for, and fewer to test, it is important to keep an OS installation to the minimum that will get the job done. In these days, surplus low power computers are cheap, and software exists to create multiple virtual systems in one, so a good step towards stability, ease of maintenance, security, and performance is to enable users to install a well-tested single-purpose OS/application suite: - DNS server, authoritative and caching - SMTP server - SMTP only - SMTP with anti-spam tools -DHCP server -IMAP server -WWW server -FTP server -Mozilla Workstation -router -firewall -IDS ...and so on. Note the lack of a general purpose desktop, and a general purpose development station - the reason for the first is that a desktop by its nature is very personal so therefore customization is a difficult task, and the second is missing because software development is both custom AND anything written for one of the "sub-distributions" needs to be compiled, tested, and installed on a development platform specific to that sub-distribution. From jc at trillian.mit.edu Tue Nov 4 12:28:05 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:28:05 UTC Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <20031104105446.77761d56.bconway@alum.wpi.edu> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> Message-ID: <20031004172805.37726.jc> | Johannes Ullrich wrote: | | > Well, they will still have 'Fedora', which I guess is going to replace | > the current consumer RedHat distro. | | Doesn't sound like their CEO has much faith in it for the imminent future, | though: | | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39117575,00.htm When he said that home users should choose Windows instead, he was of course wrong. They should choose OSX. Recently my wife, a long-time Windows user for job-related reasons, decided to try a Mac laptop and see if that would decrease her use of obscenities. She tried one in an Apple store, and ended up carrying one home. Within a few hours, she was saying how much she loved it. Now, a couple of months later, she has come up with a few things that she thinks Windows does better, but she reacts with horror to the idea of "going back". I've heard a lot of questions while she was using the Mac, but no obscenities. I have wondered at times whether having a long-time unix user in the house that can help her puzzle out problems is part of the story. I'd guess that it's a small part, but not all that significant. She has rapidly figured out lots of things that I didn't know. She's especially happy that her Powerbook does such a good job with video and sound. Our use of both our TV and CD player have dropped to near zero since she got it. The DVDs she gets from Netflix work just fine on the Mac, and the iMovie controls make a lot more sense to her than the TV and DVD-player remotes ever did. She also figured out how to access TV shows via the internet, which with the airport gives her access to the few shows she wants to watch from anywhere in the house, not just the couple of places where there are TV sets. Now we're wondering if we should look into terminating the cable TV service, and use it only for internet access. Or maybe DSL would be cheaper, if the cable company refuses to supply internet access unbundled from TV. One example: When there were weather questions, she used to turn the TV to the weather channel. Now she grabs her Mac and uses weather.com instead. Not the same, but just as useful. Our radios still get a lot of use, but with wireless laptops, sites like npr.org, wbur.org, nytimes.com and news.google.com have started to cut into that, too. If the linux gang could come up with a laptop package that includes full support for CDs and DVDs, plus all the common online music and video formats and painless wireless access, in a form reasonably comparable to what the Macs do, it could be a real winner. As far as I can tell, this isn't really close, but I'd be happy to be wrong. The GUI issue is a red herring. KDE and Gnome both have a Start-menu lookalike, which is all there really is to it other than cosmetics. The Mac doesn't even do that, and users hardly notice, as the "dock" is intuitively obvious and works just as well. Show most users some downloadable themes, and they think it's a big improvement over the Windows look. So why would RH's CEO think that home users should use Windows? Maybe he hasn't seen a recent Mac? Should we try to show him one? -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Tue Nov 4 12:44:11 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:44:11 +0000 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: References: <20031104162013.GI22190@tao.merseine.nu> Message-ID: <20031104174411.GJ22190@tao.merseine.nu> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:17:49PM -0500, Bob Keyes wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > > What's un-nice about it is that the stable releases are lacking a lot of > things, such as support for 802.11 cards, and that certain things have Haven't noticed that using Lucent/Orinoco cards. What were you using? > remained broken, such as a problem with old, isa based pcmcia adapters. Again, no problem with the two (unnamed, but both using Intel chips) that I've used. > Another bad thing is the bloatware -- why a server has to have all this > crud related to X11 I do not know. And emacs -- don't mean to get in a My mail server has no X on it at all. > religious war here but why is this in the default install? There are also It's not. It's in an optional package list, which you should have had presented to you along the way. I know this because I keep installing emacs after-the-fact for people who come up to me and ask why it isn't there. > some real problems with a clunky install, with package collisions (mtr and > mtr-tiny) resolvable just by doing the default thing, but unnerving. > > I think that the debian project needs a dose of project philosophy, and > here's mine: Good. Join the project, wield influence proportional to your effort. -dsr- From bob at sinister.com Tue Nov 4 13:22:19 2003 From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:22:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <20031104174411.GJ22190@tao.merseine.nu> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:17:49PM -0500, Bob Keyes wrote: > > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > > > > What's un-nice about it is that the stable releases are lacking a lot of > > things, such as support for 802.11 cards, and that certain things have > > Haven't noticed that using Lucent/Orinoco cards. What were you using? Prism2 > > remained broken, such as a problem with old, isa based pcmcia adapters. > > Again, no problem with the two (unnamed, but both using Intel chips) > that I've used. i82365 chipset? That's what I am using. "unresolved symbols" error results. using the yenta driver is the suggested fix, but this creates many other problems. > > Another bad thing is the bloatware -- why a server has to have all this > > crud related to X11 I do not know. And emacs -- don't mean to get in a > > My mail server has no X on it at all. No X server, but X libs and header files perhaps? > > religious war here but why is this in the default install? There are also > > It's not. It's in an optional package list, which you should have had > presented to you along the way. Oh sure, you can dselect it, but why is it default in the first place? > I know this because I keep installing emacs after-the-fact for people > who come up to me and ask why it isn't there. Um then something is a bit wierd here. I am using 3.0. What are you using? > > some real problems with a clunky install, with package collisions (mtr and > > mtr-tiny) resolvable just by doing the default thing, but unnerving. > > > > I think that the debian project needs a dose of project philosophy, and > > here's mine: > > Good. Join the project, wield influence proportional to your effort. > I shall. Like I said, I think what the project needs most is hands on, especially as far as testing goes. From warlord at MIT.EDU Tue Nov 4 13:59:23 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:59:23 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: (Bob Keyes's message of "Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:22:19 -0500 (EST)") References: Message-ID: Bob Keyes writes: > Prism2 Prism2 isn't supported by ANY distro by default, AFAIK. It's not in Red Hat, either. I dont know why the linux-wlan driver isn't incorporated into the kernel, or packaged by distros.. But c'est le vie. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From ed at eh3.com Tue Nov 4 14:31:15 2003 From: ed at eh3.com (Ed Hill) Date: 04 Nov 2003 14:31:15 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067974275.14407.317.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 13:59, Derek Atkins wrote: > Bob Keyes writes: > > > Prism2 > > Prism2 isn't supported by ANY distro by default, AFAIK. It's not > in Red Hat, either. I dont know why the linux-wlan driver isn't > incorporated into the kernel, or packaged by distros.. But c'est le vie. Wrong. This email is being sent through a Prism2-based card (Linksys WPC11 v3) on a RH 9 system. The card was auto-detected and worked fine on open networks. It works well on closed networks after correctly setting the SSID/password. And it worked about equally as well on RH 8. Most Prism2-based cards will work just fine with three drivers: wvlan_cs (old, not so good) orinoco_cs (better and what I use and is default for most cards on RH 9) linux-wlan (supposedly the best in terms of features but a pain to install and configure) Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD office: MIT Dept. of EAPS; Room 54-1424; 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139-4307 email: eh3 at mit.edu, ed at eh3.com URL: http://web.mit.edu/eh3/ phone: 617-253-0098 fax: 617-253-4464 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bob at sinister.com Tue Nov 4 14:38:35 2003 From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:38:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debian, and its shortcomings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Derek Atkins wrote: > Bob Keyes writes: > > > Prism2 > > Prism2 isn't supported by ANY distro by default, AFAIK. It's not > in Red Hat, either. I didn't know it wasn't in any linux. It is in openbsd and freebsd by default, but is horribly broken. (i.e. with my senao card one of them doesn't detect it, the other one detects it and crashes, during the booting of the install disk). > I dont know why the linux-wlan driver isn't > incorporated into the kernel, or packaged by distros.. But c'est le vie. Probably due to no one wanting to make a choice between hostap drivers and linux-wlan-ng. IMHO, hostap should be part of the kernel, because it uses the common API for linux wireless tools, and is simpler, and better. In any case, a debian "task" for wireless would be welcome. As I am installing debian 3.0 right now, I decided to double-check the statements I made earlier about its extraneous packages. With the tasks of conventional unix server and C/C++ , it does indeed install emacs20 and emacs-common, along with ispell, libfreetype6, libglib, libgtk, libpng, libxaw, pdksh, lpr, python, wenglish, xfree86, xlibsm abd zsh -- all packages that are probably quite useful but certainly not appropriate for the base install of a convential unix server. From warlord at MIT.EDU Tue Nov 4 14:41:52 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:41:52 -0500 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <1067974275.14407.317.camel@localhost.localdomain> (Ed Hill's message of "04 Nov 2003 14:31:15 -0500") References: <1067974275.14407.317.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Ed Hill writes: > On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 13:59, Derek Atkins wrote: >> Bob Keyes writes: >> >> > Prism2 >> >> Prism2 isn't supported by ANY distro by default, AFAIK. It's not >> in Red Hat, either. I dont know why the linux-wlan driver isn't >> incorporated into the kernel, or packaged by distros.. But c'est le vie. > > Wrong. Well, technically it's not. The linux-wlan driver ISN'T packaged by the distribution. But I'll concede that some cards may work, fine, but *MY* card didn't work. I've got a prism2-(mini)PCI card. It was not detected by the installer, and obviously the orinoco_cs driver isn't going to work, either. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From warlord at MIT.EDU Tue Nov 4 14:54:22 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:54:22 -0500 Subject: Debian, and its shortcomings In-Reply-To: (Bob Keyes's message of "Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:38:35 -0500 (EST)") References: Message-ID: Bob Keyes writes: > As I am installing debian 3.0 right now, I decided to double-check the > statements I made earlier about its extraneous packages. With the tasks of > conventional unix server and C/C++ , it does indeed install emacs20 and > emacs-common, along with ispell, libfreetype6, libglib, libgtk, libpng, > libxaw, pdksh, lpr, python, wenglish, xfree86, xlibsm abd zsh -- all > packages that are probably quite useful but certainly not appropriate for > the base install of a convential unix server. A conventional server doesn't need C/C++, and I suspect most of the rest got pulled in as a result. But I'm no Debianite (I use Red Hat). -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From praveenray at hotmail.com Tue Nov 4 15:50:53 2003 From: praveenray at hotmail.com (praveen ray) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:50:53 +0000 Subject: gentoo Message-ID: how about Gentoo? Has anyone used the distro? Most important, is Gentoo a commercial thing like RedHat that'll vanish into thin air once it's popular? Or Is it time to bite the bullet and go for debian ? Or maybe Windows. What a shame! _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From richb at pioneer.ci.net Tue Nov 4 15:52:04 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:52:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Novell Buys Suse was --- A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <20031104170102.19EB927165@asgard.blu.org> References: <20031104170102.19EB927165@asgard.blu.org> Message-ID: <56914.66.31.42.38.1067979124.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Well, we've got a whole lot of under-employed and unemployed Linux geeks here in Massachusetts. What would the economics of a "Boston Community Linux" distro be, if we recruited a bunch of us to build a distribution, support it with a QA lab, and operate email-only tech support? Could we find a sponsor to set up the lab? Or is it truly impossible to break-even supporting software at all these days? Seems like a pretty good opportunity for a new startup. Millions of folks would pay at least a token amount to avoid Red Hat monthly fees and/or stay out from under the likes of Novell. Personally, I'm content to just compile everything from scratch--am not really a big fan of distros anyway. But I'm quirky that way--starting out with Linux in '92, there were no stinkin' distros. In order for Linux to keep growing, it has to be nicely packaged and kept up to date. Dozens of new apps come out every year. -rich From smallm at panix.com Tue Nov 4 11:06:38 2003 From: smallm at panix.com (Mike Small) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:06:38 -0500 Subject: gentoo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031104160638.GD1040@panix.com> You might find this interesting - it was just referenced on the debian weekly news... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/50924 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/50973 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/50953 On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:50:53PM +0000, praveen ray wrote: > > how about Gentoo? Has anyone used the distro? Most important, is Gentoo a > commercial thing like RedHat that'll vanish into thin air once it's popular? > Or Is it time to bite the bullet and go for debian ? > Or maybe Windows. What a shame! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer > virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Mike Small smallm at panix.com From nullpointer at pobox.com Tue Nov 4 16:09:49 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:09:49 -0500 Subject: gentoo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311041609.52732.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 04 November 2003 15:50, praveen ray wrote: > how about Gentoo? Has anyone used the distro? Most important, is Gentoo a > commercial thing like RedHat that'll vanish into thin air once it's popular? There are commercial spinoffs from Gentoo, but Gentoo itself is noncommercial and as far as I know plans to remain so. You might try Gentoo; it's tremendously handy -- the key is that Gentoo is a meta-distribution, i.e. there isn't a distribution-wide release schedule. The Gentoo package tool handles each individual package. See the superb presentation put together by BLU's own Rajiv Manglani for a great overview of Gentoo: http://www.blu.org/meetings/2003/10/ gentoo_presentation.pdf > Or maybe Windows. Let's not get carried away here! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/qBWgsIjNiQTGkXARAk/tAJ9jBLRgtnMAIxb+//YPFmdMhhCHHwCfTrI4 zmJ5AOqTtLlj+wobLrqcDN8= =eKE0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From josephc at etards.net Tue Nov 4 16:25:50 2003 From: josephc at etards.net (josephc at etards.net) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:25:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: gentoo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My main problem with Gentoo is their repeated comparison to *BSD the port system. The similarities to emerge are almost non-existant. Gentoo may mature into a fine distrobution, but for the moment I feel it's popularity is do the the fact that it lures people in with a faux novelty. Not to mention their abuse of the color purple. -joe On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, praveen ray wrote: > > how about Gentoo? Has anyone used the distro? Most important, is Gentoo a > commercial thing like RedHat that'll vanish into thin air once it's popular? > Or Is it time to bite the bullet and go for debian ? > Or maybe Windows. What a shame! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus > scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From jc at trillian.mit.edu Tue Nov 4 17:29:09 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:29:09 UTC Subject: Debian, and its shortcomings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031004222909.22820.jc> Bob Keyes writes: > As I am installing debian 3.0 right now, I decided to double-check the > statements I made earlier about its extraneous packages. With the tasks of > conventional unix server and C/C++ , it does indeed install emacs20 and > emacs-common, along with ispell, libfreetype6, libglib, libgtk, libpng, > libxaw, pdksh, lpr, python, wenglish, xfree86, xlibsm abd zsh -- all > packages that are probably quite useful but certainly not appropriate for > the base install of a convential unix server. Well, I'd expect a server machine to include all the usual text editors, because you need them to handle config files and logs. And it would be handy to have as many shells and languages like perl, python, tcl, etc., because you need things like that to properly manage a server. Things like C/C++ and their libraries, or the printer packages should probably be kept separate so they can be installed only when needed. (Though I always feel somewhat crippled on a machine without a C compiler. ;-) -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From josephc at etards.net Tue Nov 4 17:30:42 2003 From: josephc at etards.net (josephc at etards.net) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:30:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debian, and its shortcomings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > As I am installing debian 3.0 right now, I decided to double-check the > statements I made earlier about its extraneous packages. With the tasks of > conventional unix server and C/C++ , it does indeed install emacs20 and > emacs-common, along with ispell, libfreetype6, libglib, libgtk, libpng, > libxaw, pdksh, lpr, python, wenglish, xfree86, xlibsm abd zsh -- all > packages that are probably quite useful but certainly not appropriate for > the base install of a convential unix server. > I suggest you check out the Debian Minimal CD http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst -joe From bob at sinister.com Tue Nov 4 17:31:48 2003 From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:31:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debian, and its shortcomings In-Reply-To: <20031004222909.22820.jc> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, John Chambers wrote: > Bob Keyes writes: > > > As I am installing debian 3.0 right now, I decided to double-check the > > statements I made earlier about its extraneous packages. With the tasks of > > conventional unix server and C/C++ , it does indeed install emacs20 and > > emacs-common, along with ispell, libfreetype6, libglib, libgtk, libpng, > > libxaw, pdksh, lpr, python, wenglish, xfree86, xlibsm abd zsh -- all > > packages that are probably quite useful but certainly not appropriate for > > the base install of a convential unix server. > > Well, I'd expect a server machine to include all the usual text > editors, because you need them to handle config files and log I disagree. An editor is usually someone makes a choice about using and sticks with it; there's little need to have all of them on a server maintained by one person. VI should probably be the default, though at times I like Nano. > s. And > it would be handy to have as many shells and languages like perl, > python, tcl, etc., because you need things like that to properly > manage a server. I don't know that Python is neccessary. Perl didn't used to be but it seems to be these days. TCL...well some people might say its neccessary Things like C/C++ and their libraries, or the > printer packages should probably be kept separate so they can be > installed only when needed. (Though I always feel somewhat crippled > on a machine without a C compiler. ;-) Yes as do I. But when you're trying to make a simple, small system such development tools are not neccessary. However they shoudl only be an apt-get away. From jack at coats.org Tue Nov 4 17:48:53 2003 From: jack at coats.org (Jack Coats) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:48:53 -0600 Subject: Novell Buys Suse was --- A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <56914.66.31.42.38.1067979124.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> References: <20031104170102.19EB927165@asgard.blu.org> <56914.66.31.42.38.1067979124.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: <20031104224853.M99136@coats.org> I spent the summer of 1999 in Boston on Y2K gig, and really enjoyed the community. From what I saw where is quite a community spirit that could support a BCL Distribution. To nail down the economics, I would suggest using some of the folks at local universities (Babbson seem pretty good for entrepenural things) and see it they could help generate a business plan. Some libraries, community centers, or other places around (check out SCORE, folks are associated but not part of the SBA) to find a 'business incubator' to get some room, possibly seed capital to get started. Most of the work could be done at home/remotely. I would suggest determining the niche that you really want a BCLDist to fill! Desktop, Lindows is doing that OK, but could be done differently, and it is commercial. Server, well RH will still be there and SUSE. Possibly a 'small business' Linux server/desktop. A good server base, with firewalls, etc. A central database system, mail, file storage, backups, that could be managed remotely or locally. With optional diskless desktops. Possibly a 'entertainment' distribution with TIVO functionality that also works as a desktop. Possibly a 'family server'. Similar to small business but with 'entertainment' and game server posibilities. Also think of setting up 'payfor updates' similar to the KRUD distribution that tummy.com sells. A full set of CDs every month of about $65/year with the latest updates installed :) ... Just some thoughts. ... JC On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:52:04 -0500 (EST), Rich Braun wrote > Well, we've got a whole lot of under-employed and unemployed Linux > geeks here in Massachusetts. What would the economics of a "Boston > Community Linux" distro be, if we recruited a bunch of us to build a > distribution, support it with a QA lab, and operate email-only tech > support? Could we find a sponsor to set up the lab? > > Or is it truly impossible to break-even supporting software at all > these days? > > Seems like a pretty good opportunity for a new startup. Millions of > folks would pay at least a token amount to avoid Red Hat monthly > fees and/or stay out from under the likes of Novell. > > Personally, I'm content to just compile everything from scratch--am > not really a big fan of distros anyway. But I'm quirky that way- > -starting out with Linux in '92, there were no stinkin' distros. In > order for Linux to keep growing, it has to be nicely packaged and > kept up to date. Dozens of new apps come out every year. > > -rich > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Member/Associate of HLUG, HAL-PC, ACM, /., USENIX, ADSM.ORG, BCUMC, SBIB and other various random initials and anacronyms. From jc at trillian.mit.edu Tue Nov 4 19:08:14 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:08:14 UTC Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: <200311041806.52178.coolian69@yahoo.com> References: <200311040640.52150.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <1067947131.6016.411.camel@bart> <20031004172805.37726.jc> Message-ID: <20031005000814.28477.jc> Brendan comments: | On Tuesday 04 November 2003 12:28, John Chambers wrote: | > Recently my wife, a long-time Windows user for job-related reasons, | > decided to try a Mac laptop and see if that would decrease her use of | > obscenities. She tried one in an Apple store, and ended up carrying | > one home. Within a few hours, she was saying how much she loved it. | | She stole it??? | Can she steal me one too? ;-) Heh; I can see that I phrased that a bit ambiguously. But it does occur to me that Apple might be missing a good sales approach: Just lend an iBook or Powerbook to someone for a few hours, maybe with a bit of instruction on how to use some of its sound and video apps. If they've been using Windows, chances are they'll be back soon, demanding to pay for the Mac. Might not work with experienced linux/unix users, though. -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Tue Nov 4 20:01:24 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:01:24 -0500 Subject: Sendmail and DNSBL Message-ID: <200311042000.40567.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> Scan your '/var/log/mail/info' file (or wherever the mail logs go - check /etc/syslog.conf for a line like: # Mail logging mail.=debug;mail.=info;mail.=notice -/var/log/mail/info You might need to make sure that mail.debug gets logged. Then simply search for 'reject'. See the section entitled "Testing your SBL Setup" at http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/howtouse.html but that only works if spamhaus.org is one of your DNSBL entries. From gboyce at badbelly.com Tue Nov 4 21:54:07 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (Gregory Boyce) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:54:07 -0500 Subject: Job Opening at Akamai Message-ID: <1068000847.7188.3.camel@necronomicon.badbelly.com> Folks, I just wanted to give you guys a heads up that a position is about to open up at Akamai in my group (Network Operations). The position isn't listed yet, but it should be within a few days. It's for a Network Operations Engineer. I'll try to get an official listing of requirements, but basically we're looking for someone with heavy linux experience and that is very proficient with Perl. The only person left doing full time development in our group is leaving to another portion of the company, and we need someone who'll be able to take over maintenance and development of tools for day to day work. Experience with SQL, especially postgres is a bit win. -- Gregory Boyce From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Tue Nov 4 22:11:30 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:11:30 +0000 Subject: A distribution bytes the dust! In-Reply-To: References: <20031104174411.GJ22190@tao.merseine.nu> Message-ID: <20031105031130.GK22190@tao.merseine.nu> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:22:19PM -0500, Bob Keyes wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:17:49PM -0500, Bob Keyes wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > > > > > > What's un-nice about it is that the stable releases are lacking a lot of > > > things, such as support for 802.11 cards, and that certain things have > > > > Haven't noticed that using Lucent/Orinoco cards. What were you using? > > Prism2 > > > remained broken, such as a problem with old, isa based pcmcia adapters. > > > > Again, no problem with the two (unnamed, but both using Intel chips) > > that I've used. > > i82365 chipset? That's what I am using. "unresolved symbols" error > results. using the yenta driver is the suggested fix, but this creates > many other problems. Yes, i82365 nonames. Worked fine with the i82365 module built-in to the kernel for me. > > > crud related to X11 I do not know. And emacs -- don't mean to get in a > > > > My mail server has no X on it at all. > > No X server, but X libs and header files perhaps? Nope. > > > religious war here but why is this in the default install? There are also > > > > It's not. It's in an optional package list, which you should have had > > presented to you along the way. > > Oh sure, you can dselect it, but why is it default in the first place? It's not. It's in one of the "task group" selections. I don't use those. > > Good. Join the project, wield influence proportional to your effort. > > > > I shall. Like I said, I think what the project needs most is hands on, > especially as far as testing goes. Excellent. -dsr- From 235u at comcast.net Thu Nov 6 09:26:26 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:26:26 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: This is my screenshot in Fedora Core 1.] Message-ID: <3FAA5A12.4090208@comcast.net> hey big dogs. i've been lurking on fedora-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list. i was pretty uptight hearing about redhat no longer officially supporting us desktop users, but this list has really opened my eyes to all the things that go on to get fedora working. check out this guys screenshot. we'll still have the easy updates we're used to, just getting 'em from different servers now it seems. i don't think desktop users who like redhat need to jump ship yet. #1 cool thing on the list; redhat techs answering questions. YES!!! #1 bad thing about the list; i had 70 emails from it in less than 24 hours. crap, another filter. my $0.02 that the redhat/fedora desktop isn't gone. -- , , / \ ((__-^^-,-^^-__)) `-_---' `---_-' `--|o` 'o|--' \ ` / loki_the_doppelganger ): :( supports gnu. :o_o: http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ "-" -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: sangu Subject: This is my screenshot in Fedora Core 1. Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:39:20 +0900 Size: 2872 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: not available URL: From 235u at comcast.net Thu Nov 6 18:24:31 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:24:31 -0500 Subject: neat sites Message-ID: <3FAAD82F.1010809@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi, say you stumble onto a site that looks like this, http://216.55.176.193/index2.htm and your browser (in my case mozilla 1.2.1) only shows a black background with a gif in the top left corner, but the view page source tells me there's a lot more than meets the eye, i wonder, is javascript or something not working right or are they trying to be tricky? - -- /* check out http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ /* loki_the_doppelganger -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/qtgvMb0VvwEIaEsRAthPAJ9xTuXvYidcelUxewELphSJ5K083ACfXYv5 0/bPpicyCGXDD/oIGAZyK3g= =z5yb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at thekramers.net Fri Nov 7 01:58:46 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:58:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Bad timing Message-ID: I went to shut down my server in preparation for my upgrade this weekend. It got stuck on stopping eth1 (internal network). I have absolutely no idea why. Left it for several minutes, then there was nothing to do but power down. When I brought it back up, it would not boot. I tried to get it to boot for over an hour. I could boot off of cd and mount the drives, but I could not for the life of me get it to boot. Grub just wasn't listening to me, and I couldn't look up the secret handshake because (guess what) my server was down. So after flailing around for about two hours, I figured fate had forced my hand into doing the Suse 8.2 install a few days early. And since I was installing onto another hard drive, I could always try again later. It went pretty well, but there are a few problems. The top two are: I can't seem to get IMAP working. I'm trying to use Cyrus instead of uw-imap, and couldn't find any docs on switching over. I started the cyrus service, but I can't get kmail or evolution to authenticate. Does anyone have any hints on what Cyrus uses and how to set it up? I'll try to look at the docs tomorrow again after some sleep. Can someone bang against the firewall? One of the things I was learning in preparation for the install was iptables (I was suing ipchains), but didn't get to finish. I would feel better knowing a persistent but friendly geek verified it from the outside. Thanks. From bill at billhorne.homelinux.org Fri Nov 7 08:21:42 2003 From: bill at billhorne.homelinux.org (bill at billhorne.homelinux.org) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:21:42 -0500 Subject: The "Fedora" mailing list Message-ID: <200311071321.hA7DLgX28780@billhorne.homelinux.org> TWIMC: RedHat's "Fedora" project has a mailing list. The RedHat developers are having a great time. FWIW. Bill From: "Mike A. Harris" To: fedora-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: Why two GCCs in FC1?? Organization: Red Hat Inc. X-Unexpected-Header: The Spanish Inquisition MIME-Version: 1.0 On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Alexander Grekhov wrote: >> This has been used heavily all over the kernel and although it has >> been cleaned in many places in 2.4.x kernels, it is still present >> in several places. >> 2.6.x kernels should build with GCC 3.3.x just fine. > >Thanks for the explanation. Still I think it would be less confusing and >more logical to release 2.4.x-based FC1 with GCC 3.2.x and move on to >kernel 2.6.x and GCC 3.3.x in FC2. That is not far more logical. That would throw away 6 months of compiler technology development and improvements if not more, and delay them from being widely used by people for another 3-6 months or more. There is no valid good technical reason to do that. Fedora Core is for shipping new technology, and that is what we plan to do. In some cases, this means at least for the compiler/kernel that multiple compilers will be needed, and that is just going to be a fact of life from time to time, so people will have to get used to it one way or another. This isn't something new either. All Linux distributions do this, and Red Hat is no exception. We don't want to wait 6 months to use tonnes of performance enhancements and other compiler benefits because some people can't figure out how to compile their kernel. Read documentation, ask questions, learn more about the system. If you need to compile a kernel - which the massive majority of users never ever do, then you are in the small minority of people who compile their own kernel, and you, as a hobbyist need to learn how the system works. Compiling a kernel is a developer task, and that means you learn more if you want to do it. Holding back evolving technology because it makes a simple small task like compiling a kernel, which is a developer thing, more difficult for non-developers, is not something we're ever going to consider a favourable or good thing. We pay very talented people to develop new compiler technology, and that is not just done for Red Hat, that goes directly into official gcc. And we fully plan on using those improvements in our Fedora Core distribution as soon as they are stable and we can possibly include them in the distribution. The kernel on the other hand, is very picky about the compiler, and new compilers almost always change many assumptions the kernel source code has about how the compiler works. This almost always means with every new major compiler release, the kernel will need to be compiled with older compilers until kernel folk are able to completely update the entire kernel to work with the new compiler, a task that potentially takes a very long time to do, and to beta test, etc. That time period is usually longer than the time period in between distribution releases. So, while your frustration is registered and noted, your solution is not viable, and is not in line with the Fedora Project's stated goals of using new technology. "I can't figure out how to compile my kernel" is not a valid reason to throw away perfectly stable working new technology. -- Mike A. Harris ftp://people.redhat.com/mharris OS Systems Engineer - XFree86 maintainer - Red Hat -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list-request at redhat.com?Subject=subscribe http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list From david at thekramers.net Fri Nov 7 09:18:08 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:18:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Bad timing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another biggie is that I can't get postfix to pass off to procmail. In /etc/postfix/main.cf I have mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail but it's not using it. Yes, I restarted. Is there something else I have to do? Thanks From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Fri Nov 7 09:53:41 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:53:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Bad timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail Personally I have: /usr/bin/procmail -Y -a $DOMAIN Also, I found that my problem ended up being a bad .procmailrc file. I believe I had it world-writable, which isn't just a bad idea, it will actually cause procmail to not execute it. Duane From greg at freephile.com Fri Nov 7 09:58:24 2003 From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:58:24 -0500 Subject: neat sites In-Reply-To: <3FAAD82F.1010809@comcast.net> References: <3FAAD82F.1010809@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FABB310.8020100@freephile.com> Bad website that uses Microsoft-only techniques. Works in Internet Explorer, not Mozilla. -Greg eric wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > hi, say you stumble onto a site that looks like this, > http://216.55.176.193/index2.htm > and your browser (in my case mozilla 1.2.1) only shows a black > background with a gif in the top left corner, but the view page source > tells me there's a lot more than meets the eye, i wonder, is javascript > or something not working right or are they trying to be tricky? > - -- > /* check out http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ > /* loki_the_doppelganger > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/qtgvMb0VvwEIaEsRAthPAJ9xTuXvYidcelUxewELphSJ5K083ACfXYv5 > 0/bPpicyCGXDD/oIGAZyK3g= > =z5yb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > From david at thekramers.net Fri Nov 7 14:03:56 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:03:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Bad timing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > Another biggie is that I can't get postfix to pass off to procmail. In > /etc/postfix/main.cf I have > > mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail > > but it's not using it. Yes, I restarted. Is there something else I have > to do? > I have procmail running throgh a .forward file now, but that's not a good long-term solution. Gotta solve that one. And reinstall spamassasin quick! The biggest problem now is not being able to log into the Cyrus IMAP server. Anyone else use it can help me out? I see it's running, and when kmail or evolution ask it what authentication it uses, it seems to be answering plain text using CRAM, but I can't log in using that. Right now I am reduced to pine for my inbox and editing the mbox files directly to see my sorted mail. I need to fix this quick! From gaf at blu.org Fri Nov 7 16:00:40 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:00:40 -0500 Subject: Bad timing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031107160040.7173a8ff.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 There have been some discussions on the SuSE list. I suggest you go to the recent archive. On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:03:56 -0500 (EST) David Kramer wrote: > > > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > > > > Another biggie is that I can't get postfix to pass off to procmail. > > In/etc/postfix/main.cf I have > > > > mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail > > > > but it's not using it. Yes, I restarted. Is there something else I > > have to do? > > > > I have procmail running throgh a .forward file now, but that's not a > good long-term solution. Gotta solve that one. And reinstall > spamassasin quick! > > > The biggest problem now is not being able to log into the Cyrus IMAP > server. Anyone else use it can help me out? I see it's running, and > when kmail or evolution ask it what authentication it uses, it seems > to be answering plain text using CRAM, but I can't log in using that. > > Right now I am reduced to pine for my inbox and editing the mbox files > directly to see my sorted mail. I need to fix this quick! > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/rAf4+wA+1cUGHqkRAobTAJ42uBHpy3pHzj/MAAlOqsLhoQyqAACfUBGc ON4De/MHcRaYFUhr0UlUNk4= =dklq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From william_holt at speakeasy.net Fri Nov 7 19:55:22 2003 From: william_holt at speakeasy.net (Bill Holt) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 00:55:22 +0000 Subject: Bad timing Message-ID: Luc de Louw wrote ;) 9.4. Testing the IMAP functionality A lot of users like to test the cyrus-IMAPd with the Command Line Interface (CLI) ?cyradm? and they are failing. To be successful with cyradm, you will need to add the cyrus user to /etc/sasldb2 because ?cyradm? always authenticates against SASL AND IMAP. To add the Cyrus user to the sasldb use the command: saslpasswd2 -c cyrus Password: (enter your passwd) Again (for verification): (enter your password) To use the ?cyradm? CLI please take care that the tool does not recognize standard CLI-options like -u and similar. Please follow the syntax like described in the man page ?cyradm 1? like the following example: bond:~ # cyradm --user cyrus --server localhost --auth plain Password: # This is the SASL2 password IMAP Password: # This is the IMAP password that you need to enter in the mysql-table ?accountusers? localhost> With the Cyrus command help you will see all possible commands and its abbreviations. ---- I hope this helps a little, the howto (postfix-cyrus-etc-ect) I was using redhat/sendmail/WU and opted to go to debian/postfix/cyrus for various reasons. Let me kow how your install works out, I scrapped my server (it was only functional for a week), and now I am waiting for my debian to finish downloading (adsl off-on-off-on) but thankfully I used wget which recovers the download. Anyhow, I had tried it on redhat9 but in the end the cyrus imap compile complained (after various rpm -e commands in order to scare out redhat's mandatory install of openssl.) The tutorial is excellent and I was about 90% done when I gave up trying to figure out whether redhat's previous install or my fearless (is that the right word?) uninstalls was complicating the process. I got about 99% of the way through the make, when I would get errors about missing files, I was successful at linking some but I gave up feeling I might be better off with exploring a different distro. Good Luck, and please post your results... I will be installing mine as soon as debian finishes. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Kramer [mailto:david at thekramers.net] > Sent: Friday, November 7, 2003 07:03 PM > To: discuss at blu.org > Subject: Re: Bad timing > > > > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > > > > Another biggie is that I can't get postfix to pass off to procmail. In > > /etc/postfix/main.cf I have > > > > mailbox_command = /usr/bin/procmail > > > > but it's not using it. Yes, I restarted. Is there something else I have > > to do? > > > > I have procmail running throgh a .forward file now, but that's not a good > long-term solution. Gotta solve that one. And reinstall spamassasin > quick! > > > The biggest problem now is not being able to log into the Cyrus IMAP > server. Anyone else use it can help me out? I see it's running, and when > kmail or evolution ask it what authentication it uses, it seems to be > answering plain text using CRAM, but I can't log in using that. > > Right now I am reduced to pine for my inbox and editing the mbox files > directly to see my sorted mail. I need to fix this quick! > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From cdevers at pobox.com Fri Nov 7 20:28:30 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:28:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Debian, and its shortcomings In-Reply-To: <20031004222909.22820.jc> References: <20031004222909.22820.jc> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, John Chambers wrote: > Well, I'd expect a server machine to include all the usual text editors, > because you need them to handle config files and logs. And it would be > handy to have as many shells and languages like perl, python, tcl, etc., > because you need things like that to properly manage a server. Things > like C/C++ and their libraries, or the printer packages should probably > be kept separate so they can be installed only when needed. (Though I > always feel somewhat crippled on a machine without a C compiler. ;-) Ideally, anyone that cracks into your server should also feel hindered by the lack of a compiler. As useful as it is to have a copy of GCC laying around (or for that matter, Perl & Python & Tcl), these also increase how much of a mess a system intruder can make. There's a strong case to be made that a public facing server shouldn't have any of this stuff if at all possible. Obviously there are exceptions: a mod_perl server isn't that useful without Perl; a Zope server can't get very far without Python; a Vignette server will need to have a copy of Tcl (or Java, I think -- not that familiar with Vignette, but it's the only Tcl thing I can think of). But unless you're running something that *needs* a programming tool, it probably shouldn't be on a server. Perl is pretty indispensable, but you can at least -- for example -- avoid having any extraneous CPAN modules installed. (One of the promised traits of Perl6 will be a distribution with a very restricted CPAN library [or whatever the equivalent is, maybe CPAN2 or something]. This will be a good thing.) I thought best practice was to have development & deployment be near clones of each other -- same OS & version, same core libraries, etc -- but all the development tools should live on the development / staging server, and only deployed, bare bones software should be uploaded to the public facing deployment server. You could even take this as far as not giving that machine the usual suite of text editors, except maybe /bin/vi or [muhahaha!] /bin/ed, just because it's nearly impossible to do any work on config files without some kind of editor on hand. But then if you're really paranoid, you can just scp everything over from the other side of a firewall, so realistically you could even do without tools that basic on a server. No idea if anyone is really this restrained in practice, but there are certainly worse configurations imaginable. -- Chris Devers cdevers at pobox.com http://devers.homeip.net:8080/blog/ From david at thekramers.net Fri Nov 7 22:46:43 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:46:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Thanks for the help, Jerry. Message-ID: >There have been some discussions on the SuSE list. I suggest you go to >the recent archive. Jerry, when you need help on something, on the list, in personal email, or on the phone, do I tell you to search some list I know you're not subscribed to for some unspecified term for some unspecified period of time, or do I go the extra mile and do the research as best as I can and pass it on, with pointers on where to go from there? Here I am with a box that's just barely working, without real access to my mail (I have to edit the mbox files with an editor to read mail and have no spam filtering), and a dozen more services to restore after I get this to work. Now that I'm back from work, I've had a chance to go through the mailpages, and I have to say they should be ashamed of themselves. There's all sorts of explanations of how ACLs work, etc, but I couldn't find ANY howto information on what files need to be edited with what. I'm going to do a little more STFW, but I'm going to have to give up soon and go with UW-IMAP, which I have learned to hate. From gaf at blu.org Sat Nov 8 08:01:21 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:01:21 -0500 Subject: Thanks for the help, Jerry. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031108080121.05c160b2.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:46:43 -0500 (EST) David Kramer wrote: > > >There have been some discussions on the SuSE list. I suggest you go > >to the recent archive. > > > Jerry, when you need help on something, on the list, in personal > email, or on the phone, do I tell you to search some list I know > you're not subscribed to for some unspecified term for some > unspecified period of time, or do I go the extra mile and do the > research as best as I can and pass it on, with pointers on where to go > from there? Normally, if I had the answer or could point you to something quickly I would, however, I have been working on a job that requires me to get up at 5:30AM. Since I don't use IMAP, I generally bypass those messages. I do know that others are having similar problems. Also, my dad had been in and out of the hospital the past few weeks and my time has been at a premium. My job is complete, and my dad is out of the hospital I should have more time. I'm also trying to get the paperwork for the Boston User Groups 501(c)6 filed. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/rOkh+wA+1cUGHqkRAnyfAJ9gq0teG/xtcltWR4vje9rqMYNVOACfan6Q fWt/HiB7NgUNllDafi4NQIE= =eUG/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Sat Nov 8 08:33:15 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:33:15 +0000 Subject: Thanks for the help, Jerry. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031108133315.GE3332@tao.merseine.nu> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 10:46:43PM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > > I'm going to do a little more STFW, but I'm going to have to give up soon > and go with UW-IMAP, which I have learned to hate. > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss If you are willing to deliver your mail to maildirs (a superior format in any case) then I can wholeheartedly recommend Courier's IMAP. -dsr- -- Network engineer / pre-sales engineer available in the Boston area. http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr From william_holt at speakeasy.net Sat Nov 8 08:48:57 2003 From: william_holt at speakeasy.net (Bill Holt) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:48:57 +0000 Subject: mkisofs &| cdrecord Message-ID: Hello, I was trying to burn a cd from the command line, all my links are set up correctly and I followed the HowTo (cd writing). But when I attempt to burn it writes over my ISO file instead! DOH! mkisofs -r -o distro.iso /dev/scd0 is this the correct command? The documentation is a little confusing. Thanks for any help. From gaf at blu.org Sat Nov 8 09:05:18 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:05:18 -0500 Subject: IMAP on Linux (specifically SuSE). In-Reply-To: <20031108080121.05c160b2.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031108080121.05c160b2.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031108090518.59ab637e.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have about 800 messages from the SuSE Linux English list in my inbox at the moment. A quick search for IMAP found a thread: "how do you set up uw-imap". While many of the messages in that thread are of the "you need ssl" or you don't category, there were some relatively useful messages with details, such as how to configure for Squirrelmail, and the web site below where the guy has it set up without ssl (RPMs for SuSE 8.1). http://www.webthatworks.it/docs/rpms.asp I have found that while many of the messages on the SuSE (or the Red Hat) listservs are help requests, many of the answers are detailed and intelligent. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/rPge+wA+1cUGHqkRAs5wAJ4nCNoIf9h6mmKJ7xcFsFv3Uy4VzgCfTlU+ PN7rsH83okFEqs7/I79/+b0= =6C7q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jullrich at euclidian.com Sat Nov 8 09:08:41 2003 From: jullrich at euclidian.com (Johannes Ullrich) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 09:08:41 -0500 Subject: mkisofs &| cdrecord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1068300520.24528.201.camel@bart> if you already have an .iso file, you don't need 'mkisofs' at all. The only reason to use 'mkisofs' is to generate the iso file in the first place ("make ISO fs ;-) ") so all you need is 'cdrecord': cdrecord dev=0,0 distro.iso (adjust 'dev' to your actual device id. Use cdrecord -scanbus to get a list) On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 08:48, Bill Holt wrote: > Hello, > I was trying to burn a cd from the command line, all my links are set up correctly and I followed the HowTo (cd writing). But when I attempt to burn it writes over my ISO file instead! DOH! > mkisofs -r -o distro.iso /dev/scd0 > is this the correct command? The documentation is a little confusing. > Thanks for any help. > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Johannes Ullrich jullrich at euclidian.com pgp key: http://johannes.homepc.org/PGPKEYS -------------------------------------------------------------- "We regret to inform you that we do not enable any of the security functions within the routers that we install." support at covad.net -------------------------------------------------------------- From dgavin at davegavin.com Sat Nov 8 09:17:12 2003 From: dgavin at davegavin.com (Dave Gavin) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:17:12 -0500 Subject: mkisofs &| cdrecord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031108091712.510af549.dgavin@davegavin.com> Bill, If you have the iso aready, there's no need to mkisofs. The command you used just made a new iso9660 filesystem in the file that your iso is in: the -o means output. If the iso is all set, just burn it to the cd with cdrecord. This is the script that I use to burn an iso to cd: #!/bin/bash echo "Burning $1 to CDROM" cdrecord -force -v -speed=2 -dev=0,6,0 ${1} You may have to change the dev info, run "cdrecord --scanbus" to see what your cd writer shows up as. Also, I'm using an old writer, you probably can change the speed to something better than 2x... If you want to check out the iso, you can mount it like this: #!/bin/bash echo "mounting $1 as /mnt/iso" mkdir /mnt/iso 2>/dev/null mount -t iso9660 -o loop ${1} /mnt/iso When done, just "umount /mnt/iso". This all has to be done as root unless oyu've monkeyed with the perms. HTH, Dave On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:48:57 +0000 "Bill Holt" wrote: > Hello, > I was trying to burn a cd from the command line, all my links are set up > correctly and I followed the HowTo (cd writing). But when I attempt to burn it > writes over my ISO file instead! DOH! mkisofs -r -o distro.iso /dev/scd0 > is this the correct command? The documentation is a little confusing. > Thanks for any help. > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba.... "Song of the Sausage Creature" Hunter S. Tompson From daigo at daigofujiwara.com Sat Nov 8 23:49:04 2003 From: daigo at daigofujiwara.com (Daigo Fujiwara) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:49:04 -0500 Subject: 802.11g card linux driver question Message-ID: <20031108234904.5671cd50.daigo@daigofujiwara.com> Hello, I've noticed there were quite few people using wireless card on laptop as discussed in "A distribution bytes the dust!" thread. I just purchased today, U.S. Robotics 802.11g Wireless Turbo PC Card http://www.usr.com/products/networking/wireless-product.asp?type=specs&sku=USR5410 to be used with my Compaq Armada E500 running RedHat9/KDE. Auto-detect did not work, (Nothing with Kudzu) and I've tried System Setting -> Network to add new hardware with no result. There is no U.S.Robotics in the pulldown choice or I did not know which card is compatible with it. I've also just upgraded Kernel to 2.4.20-20.9, with no luck. Any suggestion you may have is very much appreciated since I am hitting dead end trying to solve this problem on my own. Thank you very much in advance. Daigo Fujiwara From david at thekramers.net Sun Nov 9 03:44:23 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:44:23 -0500 Subject: Server rebuild update Message-ID: <200311090344.23208.david@thekramers.net> OK. Friday night I was up til 4AM. Tonight I'm calling it quits at 3:30. I ended up switching to uw-imap, and even that was a bit of a struggle, mostly due to insufficient documentation. Yes, they mention somewhere in a readme file somewhere that you have to use a secure connection now; plain text passwords are not allowed unencrypted over the wire. No, they do not tell you how to set up the phony cert, etc. Extensive STFW turned up the answer eventually. Now I have IMAP, and kmail/pine both work, as best as they can with uw-imap. DSR mentioned Courier IMAP. Definitely going to check that out. In fact, I *want* to move to maildirs, so I can grep -l for messages, etc. But I needed something to just work for now. Another few weeks I'll investigate that. Still need the .forward to get procmail to run; but that bandaid should hold until the current crises are over. I figured out the secret handshake to copy all of my mailman lists over. Some of the paths have changed, but I straightened that out. However, I can't get postfix to accept mail for my other domain names. I have all the domain names listed in main.cf under "mydestination", but I get Relay access denied when I try to send mail to david at bostongeeks.com. A little more STFW turned up this page: http://www.postfix.org/faq.html#virtual_relay which points to this page: http://www.postfix.org/virtual.5.html The goal I want is that anyuser at bostongeeks.com gets sent to anyuser at thekramers.net (or, phrased differentlu, anyuser at any.domain.I.host gets sent to the local user anyuser). I do not want to set up a list of users, I want it to just say a user coming in under any domain name I host all goes to that local user. However, the format of the config files they outline don't seem to match my needs. It seems to be geared to matching a single specific user on one domain to somewhere else. Does anyone else know how to do this? I think I'm getting some of the "virtual" terminology confused. I'm also having problems with the X display. I'm getting this jiggly black line on the top of the screen, and the GUI tools are not letting me change the frequency. This is a VERY LOW priority that I will learn to fix by hand some day. Lots of other battles to be documented in future emails. Lastly, public apology to GAF. It was 3AM and I was fried and frustrated. ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in DK KD their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a DDDD mile away and you have their shoes." Jack Handy From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Sun Nov 9 06:30:17 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:30:17 +0000 Subject: 802.11g card linux driver question In-Reply-To: <20031108234904.5671cd50.daigo@daigofujiwara.com> References: <20031108234904.5671cd50.daigo@daigofujiwara.com> Message-ID: <20031109113017.GH3332@tao.merseine.nu> On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 11:49:04PM -0500, Daigo Fujiwara wrote: > Hello, > I've noticed there were quite few people using wireless card on laptop > as discussed in "A distribution bytes the dust!" thread. > > I just purchased today, U.S. Robotics 802.11g Wireless Turbo PC Card > http://www.usr.com/products/networking/wireless-product.asp?type=specs&sku=USR5410 > to be used with my Compaq Armada E500 running RedHat9/KDE. I do not believe the card is currently supported. See: http://prism54.org/supported_cards.php http://team.vantronix.net/ar5k/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/madwifi/ -dsr- -- Network engineer / pre-sales engineer available in the Boston area. http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr From gaf at blu.org Sun Nov 9 08:35:09 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:35:09 -0500 Subject: Server rebuild update In-Reply-To: <200311090344.23208.david@thekramers.net> References: <200311090344.23208.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031109083509.0f36abe0.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:44:23 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > OK. Friday night I was up til 4AM. Tonight I'm calling it quits at > 3:30. > > I ended up switching to uw-imap, and even that was a bit of a > struggle, mostly due to insufficient documentation. Yes, they mention > somewhere in a readme file somewhere that you have to use a secure > connection now; plain text passwords are not allowed unencrypted over > the wire. No, they do not tell you how to set up the phony cert, etc. > Extensive STFW turned up the answer > eventually. Now I have IMAP, and kmail/pine both work, as best as > they can with uw-imap. > > DSR mentioned Courier IMAP. Definitely going to check that out. In > fact, I *want* to move to maildirs, so I can grep -l for messages, > etc. But I needed something to just work for now. Another few weeks > I'll investigate that. > > Still need the .forward to get procmail to run; but that bandaid > should hold until the current crises are over. > > I figured out the secret handshake to copy all of my mailman lists > over. Some of the paths have changed, but I straightened that out. > > However, I can't get postfix to accept mail for my other domain names. > I have > all the domain names listed in main.cf under "mydestination", but I > get Relay access denied when I try to send mail to > david at bostongeeks.com. > > A little more STFW turned up this page: > http://www.postfix.org/faq.html#virtual_relay > which points to this page: > http://www.postfix.org/virtual.5.html > > The goal I want is that anyuser at bostongeeks.com gets sent to > anyuser at thekramers.net (or, phrased differentlu, > anyuser at any.domain.I.host gets sent to the local user anyuser). I do > not want to set up a list of users, I want it to just say a user > coming in under any domain name I host all goes to that local user. > > However, the format of the config files they outline don't seem to > match my needs. It seems to be geared to matching a single specific > user on one domain to somewhere else. Does anyone else know how to do > this? I think I'm getting some of the "virtual" terminology confused. > > I'm also having problems with the X display. I'm getting this jiggly > black line on the top of the screen, and the GUI tools are not letting > me change the frequency. This is a VERY LOW priority that I will > learn to fix by hand some day. > > Lots of other battles to be documented in future emails. > > > Lastly, public apology to GAF. It was 3AM and I was fried and > frustrated. No need to apologize. I've been there, done that.... When I upgraded my desktop last year, I was not able to get postfix to enable procmail, and I had a few other issues. So, instead I installed sendmail. Also, I set up some of the virtual domains on Asgard, which uses postfix. For some of the domains where I want a catch all account, I set up: @domain target Example: @bostongeeks.com david at thekramers.net I think that the target but eventually resolve to a real address. I have this set up in /etc/postfix/virtual.db. Also take a look at the table in /etc/postfix/master.cf And, please look at it while your mind is fresh, not at 3AM. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/rkKN+wA+1cUGHqkRAtiYAJ9ZmeGr0NLEZSQ3a9OPYexMzYwVmQCfZmDk qzlzclRNiSK50g9M53g9PTM= =uaRc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From daigo at daigofujiwara.com Sun Nov 9 10:59:55 2003 From: daigo at daigofujiwara.com (Daigo Fujiwara) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:59:55 -0500 Subject: 802.11g card linux driver question In-Reply-To: <20031109113017.GH3332@tao.merseine.nu> References: <20031108234904.5671cd50.daigo@daigofujiwara.com> <20031109113017.GH3332@tao.merseine.nu> Message-ID: <20031109105955.54d546ec.daigo@daigofujiwara.com> Thank you, dsr. Those sites are very helpful. I guess I'll go exchange the card... Daigo On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:30:17 +0000 dsr at tao.xxxxxxxx.nu wrote: > > I just purchased today, U.S. Robotics 802.11g Wireless Turbo PC Card http://www.usr.com/products/networking/wireless-product.asp?type=specs&sku=USR5410 > > to be used with my Compaq Armada E500 running RedHat9/KDE. > I do not believe the card is currently supported. See: > http://prism54.org/supported_cards.php > http://team.vantronix.net/ar5k/ > http://sourceforge.net/projects/madwifi/ > > -dsr- From david at thekramers.net Mon Nov 10 00:07:45 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:07:45 -0500 Subject: Server rebuild update In-Reply-To: <20031109083509.0f36abe0.gaf@blu.org> References: <200311090344.23208.david@thekramers.net> <20031109083509.0f36abe0.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <200311100007.45942.david@thekramers.net> On Sunday 09 November 2003 8:35 am, Jerry Feldman wrote: > On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:44:23 -0500 > > David Kramer wrote: > When I upgraded my desktop last year, I was not able to get postfix to > enable procmail, and I had a few other issues. So, instead I installed > sendmail. Looking more and more like an option. I would like to get postfix happening instead of sendmail, but I'm only willing to beat my head against the server for so long to make that happen. I do still want to try Courier IMAP since I have specific serious issues with uw-imap, but since I now have uw-imap working, that can wait until I stop seeing the pretty colors around me from the sleep deprivation. > Also, I set up some of the virtual domains on Asgard, which uses > postfix. For some of the domains where I want a catch all account, I set > up: > @domain target > > Example: > @bostongeeks.com david at thekramers.net Yup, but what I'm trying to do is either treat ALL addresses @bostongeeks.com as the same thing as @thekramers.net, or pipe mymailinglist at bostongeeks.com | mailman yada yada > I think that the target but eventually resolve to a real address. Therein lies the reason my problem is so hard. > I have this set up in /etc/postfix/virtual.db. > > Also take a look at the table in /etc/postfix/master.cf I looked at those, but again, that's a slightly different (and eaiser) problem, since you're just mapping them to local users. > And, please look at it while your mind is fresh, not at 3AM. The problem is that I can't even START working on this stuff till the kid is asleep and primary chores are done, around 10:00pm. ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD Q: Where did you get your good judgment? DKK D A: From my experience. DK KD Q: Where did you get your experience? DDDD A: From my poor judgment From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 10 08:47:31 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:47:31 -0500 Subject: Server rebuild update In-Reply-To: <200311100007.45942.david@thekramers.net> References: <200311090344.23208.david@thekramers.net> <20031109083509.0f36abe0.gaf@blu.org> <200311100007.45942.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031110084731.3c67ce6b.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:07:45 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > I looked at those, but again, that's a slightly different (and eaiser) > > problem, since you're just mapping them to local users. Actually not. Some are local users, some are remote. The main issue is that it must resolve to some email address, local or remote. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r5bz+wA+1cUGHqkRAv10AJ4i3MoUQstGEsHwW+fOTZ5OiAa6mACeP2mA SH+X+FVUhkpGjpJCjhu7ucE= =S+Th -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 10 09:37:00 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:37:00 -0500 Subject: Backup issues Message-ID: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I back up my wife's Windows system every night using rsync over SMBFS. Lately, I am getting messages such as: readlink WINDOWS/FONTS/TT0084M_.TTF: Too many open files in system This has only started to occur. I am using rsync version 2.5.6 with protocol version 26. I am using samba 2.2.7a-72 and a 2.4.20 kernel. I'm not sure at this point if the open files limit is the Linux limit of 1024 or a limit on the Windows system or SMBFS. My thoughts are at this point is some issue with rsync either paralleling itself or not closing files after copy in some circumstances. My option on the command are: rsync -auv --exclude-from=exclude_file --delete-excluded /windoz/wifecdrive /backup/wifecdrive I have a lot of excluded files (such as cache, temp, Windows swap). BTW: The reason I use rsync is that a tar file would be huge. I ran into that where it got so large that stat failed, and I had difficulty deleting it. Also, a large tar file would be difficult to restore a single file. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r6KM+wA+1cUGHqkRAqbIAJkBQuWfqidDqp44eUpSn2Yj6gnwIwCdHN21 gn4e5dNkxy9j8JCCsj+1Ycg= =W9mc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 09:51:27 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:51:27 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <200311100951.33681.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 November 2003 09:37, Jerry Feldman wrote: > Too many open files in system I think this is the Linux kernel -- what does ulimit tell you? What about the value in /proc/sys/fs/file-max? On my desktop here at work, that's set to 52313; at idle it's got 3,389 filehandles already, so I can see a big messy Windows drive causing problems I guess. Best, d. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r6X1sIjNiQTGkXARAk4JAJ4h48OleqjTeBMUXhhPm5kT/2Y0cgCguhyO 537cEUD2vLSk6MMF6is/GLI= =tW5E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nmeyers at javalinux.net Mon Nov 10 10:04:03 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:04:03 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031110150403.GA6287@javalinux.net> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:37:00AM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I back up my wife's Windows system every night using rsync over SMBFS. > Lately, I am getting messages such as: > readlink WINDOWS/FONTS/TT0084M_.TTF: Too many open files in system That's almost certainly coming from the Linux side. > This has only started to occur. I am using rsync version 2.5.6 with > protocol version 26. I am using samba 2.2.7a-72 and a 2.4.20 kernel. I'd guess Samba isn't closing files quickly enough after you touch them - no idea why. Rsync is a great backup solution, but I think a move to a different protocol would be a help. You could run an rsync server on the Linux box and use the native rsync protocol, or tunnel rsync through rsh or ssh - either one would take Samba out of the loop. Here's how it might look in ssh (assuming something like a cygwin bash shell): RSYNC_RSH=ssh rsync [...all your usual options...] /windoz/wifecdrive wifeuserid at mylinuxhost:/path/to/backup/directory You can set up cert-based ssh authentication for that account that'll let this work without having to type a password, if that's desirable. Nathan > I'm not sure at this point if the open files limit is the Linux limit of > 1024 or a limit on the Windows system or SMBFS. > > My thoughts are at this point is some issue with rsync either > paralleling itself or not closing files after copy in some > circumstances. > > My option on the command are: > rsync -auv --exclude-from=exclude_file --delete-excluded > /windoz/wifecdrive /backup/wifecdrive > > I have a lot of excluded files (such as cache, temp, Windows swap). > > BTW: The reason I use rsync is that a tar file would be huge. I ran into > that where it got so large that stat failed, and I had difficulty > deleting it. Also, a large tar file would be difficult to restore a > single file. > > > - -- > Jerry Feldman > Boston Linux and Unix user group > http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 > PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE/r6KM+wA+1cUGHqkRAqbIAJkBQuWfqidDqp44eUpSn2Yj6gnwIwCdHN21 > gn4e5dNkxy9j8JCCsj+1Ycg= > =W9mc > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -- From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 10 10:46:13 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:46:13 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <200311100951.33681.nullpointer@pobox.com> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> <200311100951.33681.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20031110104613.3c0adda9.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:51:27 -0500 Dan Barrett wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Monday 10 November 2003 09:37, Jerry Feldman wrote: > > Too many open files in system > > > I think this is the Linux kernel -- what does ulimit tell you? What > about the value in /proc/sys/fs/file-max? On my desktop here at work, > that's set to 52313; at idle it's got 3,389 filehandles already, so I > can see a big messy Windows drive causing problems I guess. ulimit says 1024 (which is what I specified originally) and file-max is 26212. My issue is not so much with the Linux file limit (I have mucked with that in the past). Yes, the Windows drive does have a lot of files. The issue is not so much increasing the number of available file handles, but getting rsync to work within the existing limits. This particular thing only started to occur a week or so ago. Looking at the patch logs rsync has not changed since I installed SuSE 8.2, but Samba was updated in September. One solution is to write my own sync command. This would not be too much work since I have code already that does recursive directory searches. (I actually wrote a version of the Unix find command for MS-DOS years ago before there were any good utilities available for Windows). Or, simply use the cp command recursively (which will copy a lot of junk). Another possibility is to change my backup strategy, and possibly initiate it from Cygwin on my wife's system. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r7LF+wA+1cUGHqkRAuNYAJ9X5zm7cg7Kk4oyejfMrHTrC2k+0QCfdWZL RDQlSifsEb94Du1J861dw2A= =+BM3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 10 10:50:47 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:50:47 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <20031110150403.GA6287@javalinux.net> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> <20031110150403.GA6287@javalinux.net> Message-ID: <20031110105047.71e4c99f.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:04:03 -0500 nmeyers at javalinux.net wrote: > I'd guess Samba isn't closing files quickly enough after you touch > them - no idea why. > > Rsync is a great backup solution, but I think a move to a different > protocol would be a help. You could run an rsync server on the Linux > box and use the native rsync protocol, or tunnel rsync through rsh or > ssh - either one would take Samba out of the loop. Here's how it might > look in ssh (assuming something like a cygwin bash shell): > > RSYNC_RSH=ssh rsync [...all your usual options...] > /windoz/wifecdrive wifeuserid at mylinuxhost:/path/to/backup/directory > > You can set up cert-based ssh authentication for that account that'll > let this work without having to type a password, if that's desirable. I was thinking of doing this since I have cygwin on my wife's machine. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r7PX+wA+1cUGHqkRAg1fAKCESi+SSEQt1wZoXyNCXYcXchPhgwCcDZbb cStzL+Ay4spI5Ajq2bBjgjw= =Obuv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nmeyers at javalinux.net Mon Nov 10 11:01:10 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:01:10 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <20031110105047.71e4c99f.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> <20031110150403.GA6287@javalinux.net> <20031110105047.71e4c99f.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031110160110.GA6840@javalinux.net> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 10:50:47AM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:04:03 -0500 > nmeyers at javalinux.net wrote: > > > I'd guess Samba isn't closing files quickly enough after you touch > > them - no idea why. > > > > Rsync is a great backup solution, but I think a move to a different > > protocol would be a help. You could run an rsync server on the Linux > > box and use the native rsync protocol, or tunnel rsync through rsh or > > ssh - either one would take Samba out of the loop. Here's how it might > > look in ssh (assuming something like a cygwin bash shell): > > > > RSYNC_RSH=ssh rsync [...all your usual options...] > > /windoz/wifecdrive wifeuserid at mylinuxhost:/path/to/backup/directory > > > > You can set up cert-based ssh authentication for that account that'll > > let this work without having to type a password, if that's desirable. > I was thinking of doing this since I have cygwin on my wife's machine. Funny... I didn't even realize from the question that you were driving this from the Linux side. So /windoz/wifecdrive is an smbmount-ed filesystem and /backup (if I recall the name of your destination) is local. Yes, I think pushing from the Windows side and avoiding Samba should get you past this problem. I doubt there's anything fundamentally broken with Samba... you're just touching a lot of files quickly and it's apparently (possibly for protocol reasons) not freeing file resources quickly enough. Nathan From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 11:06:43 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:06:43 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <20031110104613.3c0adda9.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> <200311100951.33681.nullpointer@pobox.com> <20031110104613.3c0adda9.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <200311101106.43470.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 November 2003 10:46, Jerry Feldman wrote: > The issue is not so much increasing the number of available file > handles, but getting rsync to work within the existing limits. OK, sorry for the obvious answer. I'm confused about how Samba works into this. If you reverse the roles, i.e. have the Linux backup server connect to an rsync server on your wife's box, is this how the big datacenter products like Veritas do it? Linux just asks the Windows box what has changed? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r7eTsIjNiQTGkXARAtXpAKCzxWNIcNoifEwA5cCvHiYoFpQx4QCfUo1Q xNY2pzutd9652C92MrKAWbU= =r/Gn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 10 13:01:35 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:01:35 -0500 Subject: Backup issues In-Reply-To: <200311101106.43470.nullpointer@pobox.com> References: <20031110093700.4fdf1d4a.gaf@blu.org> <200311100951.33681.nullpointer@pobox.com> <20031110104613.3c0adda9.gaf@blu.org> <200311101106.43470.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20031110130135.2fb60f30.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:06:43 -0500 Dan Barrett wrote: > OK, sorry for the obvious answer. I'm confused about how Samba works > into this. If you reverse the roles, i.e. have the Linux backup > server connect to an rsync server on your wife's box, is this how the > big datacenter products like Veritas do it? Linux just asks the > Windows box what has changed? Yes, the big datacenter solution is to have an agent in the windows box. However, my solution, mounting the Windows share as an SMBFS was working well until recently. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r9J/+wA+1cUGHqkRAvCNAJ9jw9Uqv0fmCsPsEX1Gixb6HjrUSACeJuCg 8XblhhXjCH4fy78tdA4j1Ck= =BMF8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From taalebi at ai.mit.edu Mon Nov 10 14:02:27 2003 From: taalebi at ai.mit.edu (Dr. Taal) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:02:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: URGENT: Exceptional pay for your Java skills! Message-ID: <200311101902.OAA20147@horsepower.ai.mit.edu> ==$$$ URGENT: Exceptional opportunity for a Java Programmer! $$$===== Do you consider yourself a good JAVA programmer? If so, we have a great opportunity which pays handsomely for your Java programming skills. You can do this job at at your convenience. You can choose to spend from 1 to 40 hours a week on it. The only requirement is that: WE NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU BEFORE ASAP. Please contact us ASAP at: taalebi at ai.mit.edu indicating your level of expertise in Java programming. Many thanks in advance. ==$$$ URGENT: Exceptional opportunity for a Java Programmer! $$$===== From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 14:52:04 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:52:04 -0500 Subject: MIT network question: desktop linux, day three Message-ID: <200311101452.04159.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Folks, Does MIT's SMTP server (outgoing.mit.edu) require authentication? Day Three of the great Girlfriend Laptop Experiment: KMail is set up and works great via IMAP-SSL inbound. When she tries to send mail (setup as SMTP via outgoing.mit.edu, as the instructions say), KMail bitches thusly: 5.7.1 relaying denied proper authentication required I've been playing along with the IS instructions on the web, but they don't say anything about authenticating with the SMTP server (authentication is marked as "optional." I guess we'll try Mozilla Mail next, followed by Evolution if that doesn't work. d. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r+xksIjNiQTGkXARAhJZAKCmo3v5Rxm6XnsSKx4rMDrj32XocgCfQNL/ pr1eh7ZBe516Hs0o13pCXdw= =kGjl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cdevers at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 15:03:47 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:03:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: MIT network question: desktop linux, day three In-Reply-To: <200311101452.04159.nullpointer@pobox.com> References: <200311101452.04159.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Dan Barrett wrote: > Does MIT's SMTP server (outgoing.mit.edu) require authentication? Quite by coincidence, I've been playing with SquirrelMail, and its config tool allows you, among other things, to profile your outgoing mail server. For example, here's what I get when testing outgoing.mit.edu: [snip] If you have already set the hostname and port number, I can try to automatically detect the mechanisms your SMTP server supports. Auto-detection is *optional* - you can safely say "n" here. Try to detect auth mechanisms? [y/N]: y Trying to detect supported methods (SMTP)... Testing none: NOT SUPPORTED Testing login: SUPPORTED Testing CRAM-MD5: SUPPORTED Testing DIGEST-MD5: SUPPORTED What authentication mechanism do you want to use for SMTP connections? none - Your SMTP server does not require authorization. login - Plaintext. If you can do better, you probably should. cram-md5 - Slightly better than plaintext. digest-md5 - Privacy protection - better than cram-md5. [snip] So there you go. I'm not on MIT's network, so it's conceivable that you'll get different results if you're on that network. It may be overkill, but you may want to download a copy of SquirrelMail and play with it's conf.pl script just to see if it helps as a diagnostic tool (or if the source code for it points you in useful directions). -- Chris Devers From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 15:03:39 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:03:39 -0500 Subject: MIT network question: desktop linux, day three In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311101503.40162.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 November 2003 14:55, Bob Keyes wrote: > So yes, it is probably that MIT is now requiring SMTP authentication of > some sort. It's shameful that it is not in the documentation. I had her check the "server requires authentication" box and input her credentials. We were rewarded with another KMail error, saying that "server does not support plaintext method." When I hit the 'check what server supports' box, it didn't show us any of the authentication methods (not even plaintext). BTW, all this is from on campus -- we haven't even tried the setup from home yet. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r+8bsIjNiQTGkXARAnZPAKCWxfHR6F2bxnpZcsZ5zFcxT2MwSgCfX2R8 qr+zOGny+7ri5BCAmRH0o/k= =+bwt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 15:18:45 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:18:45 -0500 Subject: MIT network question: desktop linux, day three In-Reply-To: References: <200311101452.04159.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: <200311101518.45136.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 November 2003 15:03, Chris Devers wrote: > For example, here's what I get when testing outgoing.mit.edu: > > > Try to detect auth mechanisms? [y/N]: y > Trying to detect supported methods (SMTP)... > Testing none: NOT SUPPORTED > Testing login: SUPPORTED > Testing CRAM-MD5: SUPPORTED > Testing DIGEST-MD5: SUPPORTED PROBLEM SOLVED: the answer is that we have to use login. Although KMail, like your SquirrelMail probe, says that the server supports every protocol, each one failed except for login. At least it's wrapped with SSL, I guess. Thanks, everyone, for your help. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/r/KlsIjNiQTGkXARAl/nAKCaO6KukpKxpYNvAj0YMSACjpzwGQCfUVbw V6lY1jI5n209BgfZiSfeR54= =yQew -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From granty at bellatlantic.net Mon Nov 10 16:20:54 2003 From: granty at bellatlantic.net (Grant Young) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:20:54 -0500 Subject: MIT network question: desktop linux, day three In-Reply-To: <200311101452.04159.nullpointer@pobox.com> References: <200311101452.04159.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1068499253.14694.39.camel@penguin.mshome> Here: http://web.mit.edu/is/topics/email/smtp.html Apparently they've had a series of problems (as have other sites). Emailed viruses, etc. and they got briefly blacklisted by AOL last month so they're tightening things up. They're also planning to strip executables in attachments to their users. On Mon, 2003-11-10 at 14:52, Dan Barrett wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Folks, > Does MIT's SMTP server (outgoing.mit.edu) require authentication? Day Three > of the great Girlfriend Laptop Experiment: KMail is set up and works great > via IMAP-SSL inbound. When she tries to send mail (setup as SMTP via > outgoing.mit.edu, as the instructions say), KMail bitches thusly: > 5.7.1 > relaying denied > proper authentication required > > I've been playing along with the IS instructions on the web, but they don't > say anything about authenticating with the SMTP server (authentication is > marked as "optional." > I guess we'll try Mozilla Mail next, followed by Evolution if that doesn't > work. > > > d. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE/r+xksIjNiQTGkXARAhJZAKCmo3v5Rxm6XnsSKx4rMDrj32XocgCfQNL/ > pr1eh7ZBe516Hs0o13pCXdw= > =kGjl > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Grant Young From warlord at MIT.EDU Mon Nov 10 16:45:53 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:53 -0500 Subject: MIT network question: desktop linux, day three In-Reply-To: <200311101503.40162.nullpointer@pobox.com> (Dan Barrett's message of "Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:03:39 -0500") References: <200311101503.40162.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: Dan Barrett writes: > I had her check the "server requires authentication" box and input her > credentials. We were rewarded with another KMail error, saying that "server > does not support plaintext method." > When I hit the 'check what server supports' box, it didn't show us any of the > authentication methods (not even plaintext). > > BTW, all this is from on campus -- we haven't even tried the setup from home > yet. Make sure you're using SMTPS (SMTP + SSL) to outgoing. I know that outgoing supports SMTPS+AUTH=GSSAPI (krb5).. But you have to use the smtps port, not the smtp port. The smtp port does NOT support any authentication methods. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From 235u at comcast.net Mon Nov 10 17:03:08 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:03:08 -0500 Subject: ./ Message-ID: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hey. it's not easy teaching yourself linux. here's one for somebody who's bored tonight... what does ./ mean? if i cd to /usr/sbin and then type tripwire, nothing happens, but if i type ./tripwire off we go. why? - -- loki_the_doppelganger http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/sAscMb0VvwEIaEsRAjatAJ0TwehhctJH1dTe7xCiykV7xZA2vACeNCwc hc41XiKUXwqZdrmjQ6Xijb8= =fuxw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 17:10:46 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:10:46 -0500 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311101710.46449.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 10 November 2003 17:03, eric wrote: > hey. it's not easy teaching yourself linux. here's one for somebody > who's bored tonight... what does ./ mean? Think of it as shorthand for "the current directory." > if i cd to /usr/sbin and then type tripwire, nothing happens, but if i > type ./tripwire off we go. why? Because /usr/sbin isn't in your PATH environment variable. Without qualification, the shell scans your PATH. Once you add the ./, it looks in the current directory, which happens to be the right one, and executes the binary. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/sAzmsIjNiQTGkXARAkegAJkBO7ZANLrMe0bB3XogdCQimCmZgQCeIsaV HfdQTfjGTdNg32Ga80EL6X4= =IbGg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cdevers at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 17:31:39 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:31:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, eric wrote: > hey. it's not easy teaching yourself linux. here's one for somebody > who's bored tonight... what does ./ mean? > if i cd to /usr/sbin and then type tripwire, nothing happens, but if i > type ./tripwire off we go. why? It's a path hint. In most/all Unix filesystems -- as well as DOS/FAT -- '.' is shorthand for the current directory, and '..' is shorthand for the directory one level up from the current directory. As a parallel, '~' is shorthand for your home dir. So, when you type "./foo", the shell expands that "." to whatever the current working directory is. If you're in /usr/local/bin, then that is what '.' would expand to. The reason you have to type this sometimes has to do with your shell's $PATH environment variable. For any command you type that is not specified with a full path -- such as /usr/local/bin/foo -- the shell searches for that command among the set of available programs in the directories that are mentioned in your $PATH variable. So for example, one one account my $PATH is as follows: $ echo $PATH /Users/cdevers/bin:/sw/bin:/usr/local/bin::/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin To see how this works in practice, assume I type 'zgrep foo /tmp/bar.gz'. The first place my shell would look for the command is in my ~/bin directory. If there isn't one there, it'll look in the next directory mentioned -- Fink's bin directory at /sw/bin. I've got the GNU version of gzip installed through Fink, so I have a /sw/bin/zgrep command -- that's what would be used. If I didn't have that package/file, thenthe shell would keep working down the list until it got to /usr/bin, where Apple's copy of /usr/bin/zgrep would be found and used. Note though that "." doesn't show up anywhere in my $PATH. This is a security consideration. It used to be common to prefix $PATH with '.', so that `echo $PATH` would begin ".:/usr/local/bin:..." etc. But keeping the current directory out of your path protects you from situations where an untrusted user puts a copy of a program with behavior defined by them into a directory where you might be working. So for example if someone breaks into your web server somehow, and uploads a malicious file named 'vi' to your /usr/local/apache/htdocs, then the next time you try to do this: $ cd /usr/local/apache/htdocs $ vi index.html You would end up running that person's program over your index file, rather than the editor you were probably expecting. That program can do anything -- attempt to do a `rm -rf /`, change your password, create a backdoor for them to get in, etc. If sneaky, it might then do what it seemed like it should have done -- open up vi in this case -- so that you might not even realize the damage until it was too late. So. If you use commands in /usr/sbin a lot, you may want to consider adding that directory to your $PATH, by editing the relevant login scripts (e.g. ~/.profile, ~/.bashrc, or ~/.tcshrc). Somewhere in there should be a line declaring your $PATH. You can either edited that line, or do something like this: PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin (with slightly different syntax for tcsh). On the other hand, sbin directories are generally reserved for commands that should only be run by a priviliged user, so leaving them out of your path might be safe anyway. Make sense? -- Chris Devers From 235u at comcast.net Mon Nov 10 18:15:30 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:15:30 -0500 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi. both answers i got were great, thanks. i learned about '.' and cleared up some confusion i had about PATH. thanks. Chris Devers wrote: | On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, eric wrote: | | |>hey. it's not easy teaching yourself linux. here's one for somebody |>who's bored tonight... what does ./ mean? |>if i cd to /usr/sbin and then type tripwire, nothing happens, but if i |>type ./tripwire off we go. why? | | | It's a path hint. In most/all Unix filesystems -- as well as DOS/FAT -- | '.' is shorthand for the current directory, and '..' is shorthand for the | directory one level up from the current directory. As a parallel, '~' is | shorthand for your home dir. | | So, when you type "./foo", the shell expands that "." to whatever the | current working directory is. If you're in /usr/local/bin, then that is | what '.' would expand to. | | The reason you have to type this sometimes has to do with your shell's | $PATH environment variable. For any command you type that is not specified | with a full path -- such as /usr/local/bin/foo -- the shell searches for | that command among the set of available programs in the directories that | are mentioned in your $PATH variable. | | So for example, one one account my $PATH is as follows: | | $ echo $PATH | /Users/cdevers/bin:/sw/bin:/usr/local/bin::/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin | | To see how this works in practice, assume I type 'zgrep foo /tmp/bar.gz'. | The first place my shell would look for the command is in my ~/bin | directory. If there isn't one there, it'll look in the next directory | mentioned -- Fink's bin directory at /sw/bin. I've got the GNU version of | gzip installed through Fink, so I have a /sw/bin/zgrep command -- that's | what would be used. If I didn't have that package/file, thenthe shell | would keep working down the list until it got to /usr/bin, where Apple's | copy of /usr/bin/zgrep would be found and used. | | Note though that "." doesn't show up anywhere in my $PATH. This is a | security consideration. It used to be common to prefix $PATH with '.', so | that `echo $PATH` would begin ".:/usr/local/bin:..." etc. But keeping the | current directory out of your path protects you from situations where an | untrusted user puts a copy of a program with behavior defined by them into | a directory where you might be working. So for example if someone breaks | into your web server somehow, and uploads a malicious file named 'vi' to | your /usr/local/apache/htdocs, then the next time you try to do this: | | $ cd /usr/local/apache/htdocs | $ vi index.html | | You would end up running that person's program over your index file, | rather than the editor you were probably expecting. That program can do | anything -- attempt to do a `rm -rf /`, change your password, create a | backdoor for them to get in, etc. If sneaky, it might then do what it | seemed like it should have done -- open up vi in this case -- so that you | might not even realize the damage until it was too late. | | | So. If you use commands in /usr/sbin a lot, you may want to consider | adding that directory to your $PATH, by editing the relevant login scripts | (e.g. ~/.profile, ~/.bashrc, or ~/.tcshrc). Somewhere in there should be a | line declaring your $PATH. You can either edited that line, or do | something like this: | | PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin | | (with slightly different syntax for tcsh). On the other hand, sbin | directories are generally reserved for commands that should only be run by | a priviliged user, so leaving them out of your path might be safe anyway. | | | Make sense? | | | - -- loki_the_doppelganger http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/sBwSMb0VvwEIaEsRAj4hAJ0RkmUKdzwCoxasVcb30VLk4eUCJACfcnlm gtpPUzL7Ph/VV0ZzzhpPhnQ= =ORJa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cdevers at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 18:24:00 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:24:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, eric wrote: > hi. both answers i got were great, thanks. i learned about '.' and > cleared up some confusion i had about PATH. thanks. Here's one more: :) :) :) -- Chris Devers From david at thekramers.net Mon Nov 10 18:40:07 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:40:07 -0500 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> On Monday 10 November 2003 6:15 pm, eric wrote: > hi. both answers i got were great, thanks. i learned about '.' and > cleared up some confusion i had about PATH. thanks. You got some good answers, but I would like to give you one more tip based on what I *think* you're doing. Usually . ( the current directory) is in the $PATH for regular users, however it is almost never in the $PATH for root, for the safety reasons already mentioned. Since . is not in your path, I will assume you are logged in as root. You won't find this in a lot of manuals, but as a good practice, you should only be root when you have to. Since you have multiple screens, just log one in as root and only use it for things you need to be root for. This greatly reduces the change of "Bad Things Happening To Good People". ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD "That venture capitalists are willing to take any level of DKK D risk, even a modest one, after all that has happened in the DK KD ecommerce sector, is inspiring. They might almost be DDDD capable of becoming Red Sox fans" -Keith Regan From d.lapointe at comcast.net Mon Nov 10 19:27:24 2003 From: d.lapointe at comcast.net (David Lapointe) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:27:24 -0500 Subject: Upcoming Desktop Linux Conference Message-ID: <200311101927.24460.d.lapointe@comcast.net> Newsforge had this item today where members of LUGs can attend the Boston conference at reduced rates. http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/07/1957226 -- .david David Lapointe "There are two things that are infinite; Human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Mon Nov 10 22:09:21 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 03:09:21 +0000 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031111030921.GD17918@tao.merseine.nu> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:40:07PM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > On Monday 10 November 2003 6:15 pm, eric wrote: > > hi. both answers i got were great, thanks. i learned about '.' and > > cleared up some confusion i had about PATH. thanks. > > You got some good answers, but I would like to give you one more tip based on > what I *think* you're doing. > > Usually . ( the current directory) is in the $PATH for regular users, however > it is almost never in the $PATH for root, for the safety reasons already > mentioned. Since . is not in your path, I will assume you are logged in as > root. Let's add another safety tip: don't add . to $PATH for normal users, but do add ~/bin, and use the /etc/rc.skel or equivalent to create ~/bin for all new users. When people want to add special commands, putting them in their local bin is The Right Thing To Do. If they want commands that other people can generally browse and use, asking a sysadmin to vet it and put it in /usr/local/bin or whereever system policy dictates is the Right Thing. -dsr- -- Network engineer / pre-sales engineer available in the Boston area. http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr From cdevers at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 22:36:44 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:36:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Upcoming Desktop Linux Conference In-Reply-To: <200311101927.24460.d.lapointe@comcast.net> References: <200311101927.24460.d.lapointe@comcast.net> Message-ID: At 19:27:24 -0500 on Mon, 10 Nov 2003, David Lapointe wrote: > Newsforge had this item today where members of LUGs can attend the > Boston conference at reduced rates. > > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/07/1957226 From invalid at pizzashack.org Tue Nov 11 01:06:05 2003 From: invalid at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:06:05 +0900 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031111060605.GA16498@sophic.org> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 05:31:39PM -0500, Chris Devers wrote: > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, eric wrote: > > > hey. it's not easy teaching yourself linux. here's one for somebody > > who's bored tonight... what does ./ mean? > > if i cd to /usr/sbin and then type tripwire, nothing happens, but if i > > type ./tripwire off we go. why? > > It's a path hint. In most/all Unix filesystems -- as well as DOS/FAT -- > '.' is shorthand for the current directory, and '..' is shorthand for the > directory one level up from the current directory. As a parallel, '~' is > shorthand for your home dir. > > So, when you type "./foo", the shell expands that "." to whatever the > current working directory is. If you're in /usr/local/bin, then that is > what '.' would expand to. Factually, this is not exactly right. In reality, every directory contains an entry "." which is a hard link to itself. This is not a shorthand notation, nor something the shell expands. "." is a real directory entry that exists inside every directory. You will see it if you use the -a option to ls. If you also use the -i option, you'll also be given the inode number: $ pwd /home/ddm $ ls -lid . 29313 drwx--x--x 27 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:13 ./ $ cd .. $ ls -lid ddm 29313 drwx--x--x 27 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:13 ddm/ You will note that the inode (the first field) in both cases is 29313. This is because /home/ddm and /home/ddm/. are both real directory entries which point to the same inode, in this case the inode for the directory /home/ddm. Every subdirectory of that directory also contains an additional hard link to that directory. If you look in the 3rd field of the ls output above, you'll see the number 27. This is the link count of that file (inode). There are 27 directory entries which all point to that same inode. One is /home/ddm, the second is /home/ddm/., and the other 25 are the ".." entries in the 25 subdirectories in my home directory. The ".." is also not shell shorthand... they are real directory entries that exist in the filesystem. A file exists on the Unix filesystem until its link count is zero. You can play with this using regular files. [Note that hard links must be created on the same filesystem as the file originally was created.] $ touch testfile $ ls -li testfile 44057 -rw-r--r-- 1 ddm ddm 0 11? 11 14:38 testfile Here, we've created testfile, with inode #44057. Note the link count is 1 (third field). Now we will create a subdirectory called testdir, and create a hard link to testfile in that directory. To create a hard link, use the link command without the -s option (which would create a symbolic link, rather than a hard link). $ mkdir testdir $ cd testdir $ link ../testfile testlink $ ls -lia total 8 14683 drwxr-xr-x 2 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:38 ./ 43987 drwxr-xr-x 4 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:38 ../ 44057 -rw-r--r-- 2 ddm ddm 0 11? 11 14:38 testlink Note that testlink has the same inode number as testfile. This is because it is the same phyiscal file. Note also that the link count is 2. If you look at the original file, the link count will also now be 2: $ cd .. $ ls -liad test* 14683 drwxr-xr-x 2 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:38 testdir/ 44057 -rw-r--r-- 2 ddm ddm 0 11? 11 14:38 testfile Next, we can delete the original file, testfile. $ rm testfile $ ls -liad test* 14683 drwxr-xr-x 2 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:38 testdir/ The file is deleted. But it isn't, really: $ cd testdir $ ls -lia total 8 14683 drwxr-xr-x 2 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:38 ./ 43987 drwxr-xr-x 4 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:39 ../ 44057 -rw-r--r-- 1 ddm ddm 0 11? 11 14:38 testlink Note the link count is now 1, because we deleted the original file. Or, to say that correctly, we unlinked the first hard link to the file which was created... Unlike if you had created a symbolic link, you can still access the contents of the file (if it had any). Now, we'll really delete the file. $ rm testlink $ ls -lia total 8 14683 drwxr-xr-x 2 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:43 ./ 43987 drwxr-xr-x 4 ddm ddm 4096 11? 11 14:39 ../ Of course, there may have been more links to the file, in which case the link count would have been higher. There is no way to verify that the file is really deleted without using the find command to locate the file with that inode. If it comes back with no results, then you know the file is really gone. If we recreate our test links as above, find will reveal them: $ find . -inum 44057 ./tmp/testfile ./tmp/testdir/testlink CAVEAT: find (or at least some versions of it) ignores "." and ".." entries when you feed it the inode of a directory. So you can't find those entries that way, but they're managed by the operating system, so this shouldn't ever be an issue. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From invalid at pizzashack.org Tue Nov 11 01:12:02 2003 From: invalid at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:12:02 +0900 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031111061202.GB16498@sophic.org> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:40:07PM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > Usually . ( the current directory) is in the $PATH for regular > users, however it is almost never in the $PATH for root, for the > safety reasons already mentioned. Since . is not in your path, I > will assume you are logged in as root. These days, it is never a good idea to have '.' in your PATH. Even if an attacker can't run code as root using the method described, he might be able to get a regular user to run code for him. If the sysadmin (often the sole user) of the system hasn't kept up with patches, even that could lead to a root compromise. I believe some Linux distros have (relatively) recently removed '.' from the default user PATH for that reason. > You won't find this in a lot of manuals, but as a good practice, you > should only be root when you have to. Since you have multiple > screens, just log one in as root and only use it for things you need > to be root for. This greatly reduces the change of "Bad Things > Happening To Good People". This is very sound advice, always. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From invalid at pizzashack.org Tue Nov 11 01:20:48 2003 From: invalid at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:48 +0900 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <20031111030921.GD17918@tao.merseine.nu> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> <20031111030921.GD17918@tao.merseine.nu> Message-ID: <20031111062048.GC16498@sophic.org> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 03:09:21AM +0000, dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > Let's add another safety tip: don't add . to $PATH for normal users, > but do add ~/bin, and use the /etc/rc.skel or equivalent to create > ~/bin for all new users. When people want to add special commands, > putting them in their local bin is The Right Thing To Do. That SEEMS like a good idea, but it's actually worse than having '.' in the user's path. Why? Because the user can almost certainly write files to ~/bin. This means that, say, someone exploiting a hole in Mozilla could make your browser write their malicious script into ~/bin and make it executable. Now you have a much more likely attack vector, since that directory is also in the user's PATH. Bad bad bad. Red Hat used to set ~/bin up, by default. They don't anymore. :) Never put user-writable directories in the PATH. If you're going to ignore that, and/or put '.' in the PATH, be sure to at least put them in LAST. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at thekramers.net Tue Nov 11 02:35:06 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:35:06 -0500 Subject: Postfix is making me cry Message-ID: <200311110235.06632.david@thekramers.net> Some more playing around, and I couldn't get even local addresses to work in aliases. They're in the aliases file and the aliases file is referenced in main.cf, and I can grep the db for strings I put in aliases and they match. I get the mail for uni.thekramers.net loops back to myself, or User unknown in virtual alias table, but I just can't get it to recognize anything that's not in /etc/passwd. I keep getting different error responses and I keep looking them up and doing what they say, and then I get the same message or another one, but no joy. I got desperate enough I acutally uninstalled postfix (that was harder than you think with all the dependancies) and reinstalling from disk. Then I started tweaking again, saving my changes with rcs as I go along. If I can't get this working by tomorrow night, I'm installing sendmail. I hate to give up, but I've been trying for four days to get this working, and it's screwing me over in so many ways... Anyone want to make a few bucks or a meal getting postfix/mailman working for me? This leads me to my next decision point: I have had enough other problems with the Suse install that I'm tempted to give up and start over with another distro, even though I paid money for this. Pretty much every package I tried installing that was not specificially for Suse has failed (squirrelmail, gaim, tmpwatch, ...) -- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD "Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. DKK D In the long run of history the censor and the inquisitor have always DK KD lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas." DDDD - A. Whitney Griswold From d.lapointe at comcast.net Tue Nov 11 07:27:54 2003 From: d.lapointe at comcast.net (David Lapointe) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:27:54 -0500 Subject: Upcoming Desktop Linux Conference In-Reply-To: References: <200311101927.24460.d.lapointe@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311110727.54792.d.lapointe@comcast.net> Yes it would seem that way! Sorry. On Monday 10 November 2003 10:36 pm, you wrote: > At 19:27:24 -0500 on Mon, 10 Nov 2003, David Lapointe wrote: > > Newsforge had this item today where members of LUGs can attend the > > Boston conference at reduced rates. > > > > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/07/1957226 > > From the page you sent: > > Desktop Linux Consortium conference is November 10, 2003, at Boston > University's Corporate Education Center in Tyngsboro, Massachusetts. > > Err, wouldn't that mean it was [nearly?] over by the time you sent this? -- .david David Lapointe We think in generalities, but we live in detail -Alfred North Whitehead From gaf at blu.org Tue Nov 11 08:00:27 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:00:27 -0500 Subject: ./ In-Reply-To: <20031111062048.GC16498@sophic.org> References: <3FB00B1C.7070000@comcast.net> <3FB01C12.60506@comcast.net> <200311101840.07045.david@thekramers.net> <20031111030921.GD17918@tao.merseine.nu> <20031111062048.GC16498@sophic.org> Message-ID: <20031111080027.55c5ab14.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:20:48 +0900 Derek Martin wrote: > On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 03:09:21AM +0000, dsr at tao.merseine.nu wrote: > > Let's add another safety tip: don't add . to $PATH for normal users, > > but do add ~/bin, and use the /etc/rc.skel or equivalent to create > > ~/bin for all new users. When people want to add special commands, > > putting them in their local bin is The Right Thing To Do. > > That SEEMS like a good idea, but it's actually worse than having '.' > in the user's path. Why? Because the user can almost certainly write > files to ~/bin. This means that, say, someone exploiting a hole in > Mozilla could make your browser write their malicious script into > ~/bin and make it executable. Now you have a much more likely attack > vector, since that directory is also in the user's PATH. Bad bad bad. > > Red Hat used to set ~/bin up, by default. They don't anymore. :) > > Never put user-writable directories in the PATH. If you're going to > ignore that, and/or put '.' in the PATH, be sure to at least put them > in LAST. BTW: Instead of using ~/bin in the PATH variable, use $HOME/bin. While these are effectively the same thing, ~ is not recognized by the Bourne shell (but is recognized by most others including BASH, KSH, CSH and TCSH). - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/sN1r+wA+1cUGHqkRAnomAJ0X9LE9+pfvCCIPKvzFHZ43Laj3ZgCfYe4/ djPLe7yN1IbUZXB0G97YRDQ= =WCZX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Tue Nov 11 08:02:47 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:02:47 -0500 Subject: Postfix is making me cry In-Reply-To: <200311110235.06632.david@thekramers.net> References: <200311110235.06632.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031111080247.2db11449.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:35:06 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > This leads me to my next decision point: I have had enough other > problems with the Suse install that I'm tempted to give up and start > over with another distro, even though I paid money for this. Pretty > much every package I tried installing that was not specificially for > Suse has failed (squirrelmail, gaim, tmpwatch, ...) I thought I gave you the SuSE 8.2 boxed set that SuSE sent me free. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/sN33+wA+1cUGHqkRAthLAJ4jUbHuSN+IVc2btstu+XCDhTgojwCggu4j 9tqbeTcV1LOWUSnflnwwLWM= =YF62 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Tue Nov 11 13:16:34 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:16:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: ACPI Events Message-ID: How do ACPI events work? If I write a simple loop that cats out /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state over and over, then open and close the lid of my laptop, it says open/closed as I would expect. Interestingly, if I just loop tightly it does not -- but if I throw a sleep in there, it does. I see events in /var/log/acpid, but can't make them happen. For instance there is a LID event at 11:01:17 today. It is now 12:54. Hang on while I close the lid for a few seconds... ...it's 2 minutes later. No entry in the log. Will it show up later? Did I not leave the lid closed long enough? I have no idea. Whatever I was running at 11:01 I'm running now, so I dont think it's a failure to run acpid properly or something. And I can se ethat the state changes immediately so I dont know why the event wouldn't happen with at least a few seconds turnaround time. What is the relationship to acpid and events? Does it monitor /proc/acpi and then generate the events? Or does it merely listen to events being generated and then attach actions to them? Duane From david at thekramers.net Tue Nov 11 13:28:55 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:28:55 -0500 Subject: Postfix is making me cry In-Reply-To: <20031111080247.2db11449.gaf@blu.org> References: <200311110235.06632.david@thekramers.net> <20031111080247.2db11449.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031111182855.GA13004@uni.thekramers.net> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 08:02:47AM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:35:06 -0500 > David Kramer wrote: > > > This leads me to my next decision point: I have had enough other > > problems with the Suse install that I'm tempted to give up and start > > over with another distro, even though I paid money for this. Pretty > > much every package I tried installing that was not specificially for > > Suse has failed (squirrelmail, gaim, tmpwatch, ...) > I thought I gave you the SuSE 8.2 boxed set that SuSE sent me free. Yes, but I bought the 9.0 upgrage as we talked about. I just went out and go a full 9.0 professional from Microcenter for $80 for expediency. If I can't get that installed and mail working in one night, then I'm giving up on Suse for good. If it works then I will chalk it up to something I did wrong in the first install. But the fact that I could not install almost all of the non-Suse things I wanted to install does not bode well. Top of that list is the most recent "gaim", because the one that comes with Suse will no longer work with Yahoo since they changed formats. Even tried build the SRPM myself, but there were too many dependencies, some of which would not install. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D Love to stay. Can't. Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love, bye. DK KD DDDD J'Kar From david at thekramers.net Tue Nov 11 13:33:51 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:33:51 -0500 Subject: Fedora Q Message-ID: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> Is "core 1" a production release or a release candidate? I could not find an explanation of their "core" terminonlogy on their website. I get the impression that "release" becomes a fuzzy word, as they are doing the freebsd- style where there are not many releases, just a lot of updates that can be installed. Any feedback on it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D Love to stay. Can't. Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love, bye. DK KD DDDD J'Kar From gaf at blu.org Tue Nov 11 13:45:18 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:45:18 -0500 Subject: Postfix is making me cry In-Reply-To: <20031111182855.GA13004@uni.thekramers.net> References: <200311110235.06632.david@thekramers.net> <20031111080247.2db11449.gaf@blu.org> <20031111182855.GA13004@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031111134518.57bc5460.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:28:55 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > > I just went out and go a full 9.0 professional from Microcenter for > $80 for expediency. If I can't get that installed and mail working in > one night, then I'm giving up on Suse for good. If it works then I > will chalk it up to something I did wrong in the first install. But > the fact that I could not install almost all of the non-Suse things I > wanted to install does not bode well. > > Top of that list is the most recent "gaim", because the one that comes > with Suse will no longer work with Yahoo since they changed formats. > Even tried build the SRPM myself, but there were too many > dependencies, some of which would not install. The professional upgrade and the professional are the same media. The difference is the manuals. I don't know about postfix, but I do remember that JABR could not get the Red Hat version working either. As far as things like postfix go, it's not really SUSE. I think you might have the same problem with other distros. In cases like that I generally just get the sources from the site and build from that. For instance, I never use the SUSE RPM version of Sylpheed Claws because it is lacking a feature I want, such as integrated GPG. The RPMs are set up for what they think is the average user. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/sS4++wA+1cUGHqkRAiRBAJ9i10aO4C/Fh9V0+2ouePSOs2jgoQCdFGa4 0gCUs41ORvuD/+z9qHRxkNY= =37Ve -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jullrich at euclidian.com Tue Nov 11 13:46:09 2003 From: jullrich at euclidian.com (Johannes Ullrich) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:46:09 -0500 Subject: Fedora Q In-Reply-To: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> References: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <1068576368.8739.157.camel@bart> 'core 1' is 'production'. Call it "Redhat 10" or "RedHat 9.1". On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 13:33, David Kramer wrote: > Is "core 1" a production release or a release candidate? I could not find > an explanation of their "core" terminonlogy on their website. I get the > impression that "release" becomes a fuzzy word, as they are doing the freebsd- > style where there are not many releases, just a lot of updates that can be > installed. > > Any feedback on it? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net > DK KD > DKK D Love to stay. Can't. Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love, bye. > DK KD > DDDD J'Kar > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Johannes Ullrich jullrich at euclidian.com pgp key: http://johannes.homepc.org/PGPKEYS -------------------------------------------------------------- "We regret to inform you that we do not enable any of the security functions within the routers that we install." support at covad.net -------------------------------------------------------------- From gboyce at badbelly.com Tue Nov 11 14:12:28 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:12:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora Q In-Reply-To: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: The main distro is the "core" while there are different "Extras" available. http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/terminology.html Fedora Core The distribution: the package set that is included on the set of ISO images and directory tree blessed by the steering committee and released as Fedora Core. The steering committee sets policies for Fedora Core, and provides the infrastructure to build it. Fedora Extras Fedora Extras are sets of packages that augment Fedora Core but do not replace Fedora Core component packages. These packages, like all packages that are part of The Fedora Project, must conform to the legal requirements of the project and conform to the Fedora Extras policies. On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > Is "core 1" a production release or a release candidate? I could not find > an explanation of their "core" terminonlogy on their website. I get the > impression that "release" becomes a fuzzy word, as they are doing the freebsd- > style where there are not many releases, just a lot of updates that can be > installed. > > Any feedback on it? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net > DK KD > DKK D Love to stay. Can't. Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love, bye. > DK KD > DDDD J'Kar > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From 235u at comcast.net Tue Nov 11 16:17:02 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:17:02 -0500 Subject: Fedora Q In-Reply-To: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> References: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <3FB151CE.5070000@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 david, i see the other guys answered your question on the terminology. aren't you an old redhat guy? i just downloaded fedora yarrow i386 (3 cds), i'll mail you a copy (for free) if you want. also, i just used a gFTP to get the iso (the redhat site and mirrors were very crowded), but i see alot of folks on the fedora mail lists using 'bit torrent'. has anybody else tried it? is it worth using? -eric. David Kramer wrote: | Is "core 1" a production release or a release candidate? I could not find | an explanation of their "core" terminonlogy on their website. I get the | impression that "release" becomes a fuzzy word, as they are doing the freebsd- | style where there are not many releases, just a lot of updates that can be | installed. | | Any feedback on it? - -- loki_the_doppelganger http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/sVHNMb0VvwEIaEsRAoPhAJ0UQig0s+rL2aAKiQHJAsfA1ggtFQCfaHqe UEi8mcx49qleVI6kimw2DEo= =uiq2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jullrich at euclidian.com Tue Nov 11 16:23:30 2003 From: jullrich at euclidian.com (Johannes Ullrich) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:23:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora Q In-Reply-To: <3FB151CE.5070000@comcast.net> References: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> <3FB151CE.5070000@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1068585809.8736.229.camel@bart> I used BitTorrent and it worked great. On my Comcast cable modem line I got a consistent 170kByte/sec download. Just allow it to 'ramp up' for a couple minutes. It starts slow but after a minute or two, you will have the full speed. (also: I am willing to provide free CD sets for self-pickup if someone doesn't want to spend al lthe time downloading them ;-) ) On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 16:17, eric wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > david, i see the other guys answered your question on the terminology. > aren't you an old redhat guy? i just downloaded fedora yarrow i386 (3 > cds), i'll mail you a copy (for free) if you want. also, i just used a > gFTP to get the iso (the redhat site and mirrors were very crowded), but > i see alot of folks on the fedora mail lists using 'bit torrent'. has > anybody else tried it? is it worth using? -eric. > > David Kramer wrote: > | Is "core 1" a production release or a release candidate? I could not find > | an explanation of their "core" terminonlogy on their website. I get the > | impression that "release" becomes a fuzzy word, as they are doing the > freebsd- > | style where there are not many releases, just a lot of updates that can be > | installed. > | > | Any feedback on it? > > > - -- > loki_the_doppelganger > http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/sVHNMb0VvwEIaEsRAoPhAJ0UQig0s+rL2aAKiQHJAsfA1ggtFQCfaHqe > UEi8mcx49qleVI6kimw2DEo= > =uiq2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Johannes Ullrich jullrich at euclidian.com pgp key: http://johannes.homepc.org/PGPKEYS -------------------------------------------------------------- "We regret to inform you that we do not enable any of the security functions within the routers that we install." support at covad.net -------------------------------------------------------------- From ed at eh3.com Tue Nov 11 16:33:02 2003 From: ed at eh3.com (Ed Hill) Date: 11 Nov 2003 16:33:02 -0500 Subject: Fedora Q In-Reply-To: <3FB151CE.5070000@comcast.net> References: <20031111183351.GC13004@uni.thekramers.net> <3FB151CE.5070000@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1068586382.20261.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 16:17, eric wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > david, i see the other guys answered your question on the terminology. > aren't you an old redhat guy? i just downloaded fedora yarrow i386 (3 > cds), i'll mail you a copy (for free) if you want. also, i just used a > gFTP to get the iso (the redhat site and mirrors were very crowded), but > i see alot of folks on the fedora mail lists using 'bit torrent'. has > anybody else tried it? is it worth using? -eric. Hi Eric, I've used bittorrent a few times and it does a fantastic job over the campus network (all three ISOs in literally just a few minutes). See the directions at: http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/ for a quick start. Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD office: MIT Dept. of EAPS; Room 54-1424; 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139-4307 email: eh3 at mit.edu, ed at eh3.com URL: http://web.mit.edu/eh3/ phone: 617-253-0098 fax: 617-253-4464 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Tue Nov 11 16:38:36 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:38:36 -0500 Subject: Postfix is making me cry Message-ID: <200311111638.36056.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> Sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble. There was another person sending questions to the list about Postfix, too. This all seems strange, since I've in the last months installed Postfix on three different systems, with one being our company's central mail server. I had absolutely no trouble, and everything I wanted was working within minutes. I'm using Mandrake 9.1... If you can make your system available over the net, I could take a peek. But you'll have to allow me root access for a short time. Contact me directly if you are interested. From jabr at abreau.net Tue Nov 11 19:26:02 2003 From: jabr at abreau.net (John Abreau) Date: 11 Nov 2003 19:26:02 -0500 Subject: Postfix is making me cry In-Reply-To: <20031111134518.57bc5460.gaf@blu.org> References: <200311110235.06632.david@thekramers.net> <20031111080247.2db11449.gaf@blu.org> <20031111182855.GA13004@uni.thekramers.net> <20031111134518.57bc5460.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <1068596762.24805.8.camel@frodo> On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 13:45, Jerry Feldman wrote: > The professional upgrade and the professional are the same media. The > difference is the manuals. I don't know about postfix, but I do remember > that JABR could not get the Red Hat version working either. As far as > things like postfix go, it's not really SUSE. I think you might have the > same problem with other distros. No, actually that was the Mailman rpm in Redhat 7.1 that I had the problem with, not postfix. -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix Email jabr at blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bill at horne.net Tue Nov 11 20:17:40 2003 From: bill at horne.net (Bill Horne) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:17:40 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux Message-ID: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> TWIMC, The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP server. I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. FWIW. Bill -- Bill Horne 781 784-7287 "I have always wished for a computer that would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish came true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." Bjarne Stronstrup From nmeyers at javalinux.net Tue Nov 11 20:25:30 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:25:30 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20031112012530.GA2528@javalinux.net> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 08:17:40PM -0500, Bill Horne wrote: > TWIMC, > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > server. What's so proprietary about selling to customers who are willing to pay for a product that someone is standing behind and supporting? Commercial customers have better things to do than run to users groups when they have problems. Besides... they run the risk of running into someone who doesn't, er... approve of them :-(. Nathan From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Tue Nov 11 20:26:29 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:26:29 -0800 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20031112012629.GB18943@server.sunrise-linux.com> Having built my own linux distro, I can say this isn't much fun =) -miah On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 08:17:40PM -0500, Bill Horne wrote: > TWIMC, > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > server. > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > FWIW. > > Bill > -- > Bill Horne > 781 784-7287 > > "I have always wished for a computer that would be as easy to use as my > telephone. My wish came true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." > > > Bjarne Stronstrup > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu Wed Nov 12 07:12:33 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:12:33 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux Message-ID: a. What hardware manufacturers components would you look to in assembling a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... b. How would you put together a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... I've heard the best is knoppix . From invalid at pizzashack.org Wed Nov 12 07:18:28 2003 From: invalid at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:18:28 +0900 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031112121827.GD18211@sophic.org> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Don Saklad wrote: > a. What hardware manufacturers components would you look to > in assembling a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > b. How would you put together a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... Personally, I don't really care for Debian; I would use Red Hat Linux rather than GNU/Linux. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. From nmeyers at javalinux.net Wed Nov 12 07:27:54 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:27:54 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031112122754.GA20040@javalinux.net> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Don Saklad wrote: > a. What hardware manufacturers components would you look to > in assembling a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... You're not building a PC to save money, I hope. Manufacturing costs are so low and the market so competitive, that it's generally cheaper to buy a built system. > b. How would you put together a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > I've heard the best is knoppix The most important tool in assembling a home PC is a phillips-head screwdriver. As for software, there is no "best" distribution - it all depends on what you're looking for. Check out this site to do your own comparison shopping: http://www.distrowatch.com/ Nathan From gaf at blu.org Wed Nov 12 08:35:29 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:35:29 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:12:33 -0500 Don Saklad wrote: > a. What hardware manufacturers components would you look to > in assembling a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > > > b. How would you put together a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > I've heard the best is knoppix Knoppix is a run-from-CD distro. I started using it in my Linux for the Desktop class. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/sjch+wA+1cUGHqkRAkdrAJ4utWg8hPJDBb6xMFFYOfl6qrKO+ACghKAQ zaWvAHxGerxP7/c/Zyz1TEw= =aHhm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nmeyers at javalinux.net Wed Nov 12 09:21:28 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:21:28 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031112142128.GA20298@javalinux.net> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:35:29AM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:12:33 -0500 > Don Saklad wrote: > > > a. What hardware manufacturers components would you look to > > in assembling a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > > > > > > > b. How would you put together a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > > > I've heard the best is knoppix > Knoppix is a run-from-CD distro. I started using it in my Linux for the > Desktop class. According to distrowatch, Knoppix has made the leap to being an installable distro - never tried it myself. Nathan From gboyce at badbelly.com Wed Nov 12 10:33:24 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:33:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Bill Horne wrote: > TWIMC, > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > server. > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. I love this idea. I'm supporting a large number of desktop machines at my work that are currently running Redhat 7.3, and I've been trying to figure out what to move them to after the end of the year. I needed something that could be net installed easily with something similiar to kickstart, and that worked with all the programs we currently depend on. I contemplated building the enterprise version from source, but I figured it was too much work for the number of machines I'm supporting. I'm more than happy to help with this project if we get enough people who are interested. Greg From jc at trillian.mit.edu Wed Nov 12 11:06:35 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:06:35 UTC Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <20031112142128.GA20298@javalinux.net> References: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031012160635.93417.jc> Nathan writes: | > Knoppix is a run-from-CD distro. I started using it in my Linux for the | > Desktop class. | | According to distrowatch, Knoppix has made the leap to being an | installable distro - never tried it myself. Which is an excellent idea. With most distros, the only way to tell if it works on your hardware is to attempt an installation. If it doesn't work (or semi-works but can't recognize some of the hardware), you're stuck with a half-installed system that has destroyed whatever was previously installed. Since knoppix can run from the CD without touching the disk, you can "install" it in memory first, check to make sure that it's sane and recognizes all the hardware. If not, you just shut it down and reboot from the unharmed hard disk. If all is ok, you can proceed to install and overwrite the previous OS on the hard disk. Problems with lack of drivers for the latest hardware is especially a problem on laptops, which tend to have the very latest hardware. It sounds like knoppix would be a good way to find out whether linux can run on a particular laptop. -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From andy at honnu.com Wed Nov 12 11:21:41 2003 From: andy at honnu.com (Anand Rao) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:21:41 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux References: Message-ID: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> I am in for it. I feel this will is a great great Idea Ready to help this project. regards Anand ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Bill Horne" Cc: "BLU Discussion List" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:33 AM Subject: Re: RedHat Enterprise Linux > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Bill Horne wrote: > > > TWIMC, > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > > server. > > > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > I love this idea. I'm supporting a large number of desktop machines at my > work that are currently running Redhat 7.3, and I've been trying to figure > out what to move them to after the end of the year. > > I needed something that could be net installed easily with something > similiar to kickstart, and that worked with all the programs we currently > depend on. I contemplated building the enterprise version from source, > but I figured it was too much work for the number of machines I'm > supporting. > > I'm more than happy to help with this project if we get enough people who > are interested. > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From steve at cyberianhamster.com Wed Nov 12 11:28:53 2003 From: steve at cyberianhamster.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:28:53 -0800 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <20031112122754.GA20040@javalinux.net> References: <20031112122754.GA20040@javalinux.net> Message-ID: <3FB25FC5.2010409@cyberianhamster.com> nmeyers at javalinux.net wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Don Saklad wrote: > >>a. What hardware manufacturers components would you look to >> in assembling a home computer with GNU/Linux ?... > > > You're not building a PC to save money, I hope. Manufacturing costs are > so low and the market so competitive, that it's generally cheaper to > buy a built system. Cheaper in $ for a total home system from scratch. The cost savings from high-volume manufacturers are the greatest on bundled, new systems. But the total cost over longer periods of time might be a different story. It depends on the person's computer needs. Buying a new system for system upgrade, when you're really looking at evolutionary upgrades that can use components that you're already happy with, is not going to be cheaper. Never mind the more important benefits of customization and control that come with building your own machine. Steve From warlord at MIT.EDU Wed Nov 12 11:47:04 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:47:04 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> (Anand Rao's message of "Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:21:41 -0500") References: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> Message-ID: "Anand Rao" writes: > I am in for it. I feel this will is a great great Idea Ready to help this > project. For what it's worth, you may want to look at what MIT is doing with "Linux-Athena". It (currently) a Red Hat based distribution with an automatic (push/pull) update system which allows centralized control of lots of workstations with similar configuration. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From granty at bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 12 12:40:20 2003 From: granty at bellatlantic.net (Grant Young) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:40:20 -0500 Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: References: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> Message-ID: <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> And now for the curmudgeonly view: Ugh... Another distribution??? While I'm disappointed with Red Hat's decision to pull out of the low-end distribution market I'd have to say that the effort to make it work they put in was way out of whack with the return they saw. The main reason to use Red Hat was to have the brand name and possibility of paid support behind it. Trying to roll yet another distribution won't bring back the brand name support that gives comfort to the PHBs giving the go ahead for Linux. If they're willing to shell out just buy the Red Hat offering. The cost is still relatively insignificant to their bottom line. If they won't or can't afford it just pick some other existing distribution like Suse or Debian or Gentoo that fulfills your philosophical bent and technical needs. The maintainers of the those distros will appreciate the support. This is my personal view. One of the great things I love about Linux and Open Source is the freedom to do stuff like rolling your own distribution. It's just not my cup of tea. I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did have experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with non-Athenized applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a disaster. Project Athena solves the workstation application and file server maintenance problem for MIT very, very well and their programmers do an amazing job keeping things up to date. The thing that makes Athena work well is its elegantly engineered rigidity. But in my experience the tweaks and improvements they put in for their environment usually mess up services and interfaces expected by many applications. YMMV. On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 11:47, Derek Atkins wrote: > "Anand Rao" writes: > > > I am in for it. I feel this will is a great great Idea Ready to help this > > project. > > For what it's worth, you may want to look at what MIT is doing with > "Linux-Athena". It (currently) a Red Hat based distribution with an > automatic (push/pull) update system which allows centralized control > of lots of workstations with similar configuration. > > -derek From jack at coats.org Wed Nov 12 12:58:10 2003 From: jack at coats.org (Jack Coats) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:58:10 -0600 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20031112175810.M17420@coats.org> If you want a 'vendor' model, go check out the KRUD distribution at tummy.com ... They have been repackaging RH for years, and are addressing the demise of the free RH distribution even as we speak. .. JC (just a happy customer of Tummy.com/Krud) On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:33:24 -0500 (EST), gboyce wrote > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Bill Horne wrote: > > > TWIMC, > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > > server. > > > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > I love this idea. I'm supporting a large number of desktop machines > at my work that are currently running Redhat 7.3, and I've been > trying to figure out what to move them to after the end of the year. > > I needed something that could be net installed easily with something > similiar to kickstart, and that worked with all the programs we > currently depend on. I contemplated building the enterprise version > from source, but I figured it was too much work for the number of > machines I'm supporting. > > I'm more than happy to help with this project if we get enough > people who are interested. > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Member/Associate of HLUG, HAL-PC, ACM, /., USENIX, ADSM.ORG, BCUMC, SBIB and other various random initials and anacronyms. From warlord at MIT.EDU Wed Nov 12 15:00:31 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:00:31 -0500 Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> (Grant Young's message of "Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:40:20 -0500") References: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> Message-ID: Grant Young writes: > I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did have > experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with non-Athenized > applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a disaster. Project > Athena solves the workstation application and file server maintenance > problem for MIT very, very well and their programmers do an amazing job > keeping things up to date. The thing that makes Athena work well is its > elegantly engineered rigidity. But in my experience the tweaks and > improvements they put in for their environment usually mess up services > and interfaces expected by many applications. YMMV. I can wholeheartedly say that this has changed significantly in the past, oh five+ years.. I suspect it's been that long since you've tried? The Linux-Athena "distro" is really Red Hat with a few modified or replaced RPMS. But it still is Red Hat at the core. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From jj at lcs.mit.edu Wed Nov 12 15:48:57 2003 From: jj at lcs.mit.edu (John Jannotti) Date: 12 Nov 2003 15:48:57 -0500 Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: References: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> Message-ID: Do you know what the plans are for the future? Will Linux-Athena become a slightly modified Fedora? jj Derek Atkins writes: > Grant Young writes: > > > I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did have > > experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with non-Athenized > > applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a disaster. Project > > Athena solves the workstation application and file server maintenance > > problem for MIT very, very well and their programmers do an amazing job > > keeping things up to date. The thing that makes Athena work well is its > > elegantly engineered rigidity. But in my experience the tweaks and > > improvements they put in for their environment usually mess up services > > and interfaces expected by many applications. YMMV. > > I can wholeheartedly say that this has changed significantly in the > past, oh five+ years.. I suspect it's been that long since you've > tried? The Linux-Athena "distro" is really Red Hat with a few > modified or replaced RPMS. But it still is Red Hat at the core. > > -derek > -- > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH > warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From warlord at MIT.EDU Wed Nov 12 15:54:37 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:54:37 -0500 Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: (John Jannotti's message of "12 Nov 2003 15:48:57 -0500") References: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> Message-ID: John Jannotti writes: > Do you know what the plans are for the future? Will Linux-Athena become a > slightly modified Fedora? Athena-Dev is looking at the options and haven't made a decision, yet. They may just move to using Fedora, they may move to SuSE, they may move to Debian... Ask me again in April and I should have a better answer for you. > jj -derek > > Derek Atkins writes: >> Grant Young writes: >> >> > I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did have >> > experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with non-Athenized >> > applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a disaster. Project >> > Athena solves the workstation application and file server maintenance >> > problem for MIT very, very well and their programmers do an amazing job >> > keeping things up to date. The thing that makes Athena work well is its >> > elegantly engineered rigidity. But in my experience the tweaks and >> > improvements they put in for their environment usually mess up services >> > and interfaces expected by many applications. YMMV. >> >> I can wholeheartedly say that this has changed significantly in the >> past, oh five+ years.. I suspect it's been that long since you've >> tried? The Linux-Athena "distro" is really Red Hat with a few >> modified or replaced RPMS. But it still is Red Hat at the core. >> >> -derek >> -- >> Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory >> Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) >> URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH >> warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at blu.org >> http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Wed Nov 12 16:17:06 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:17:06 -0800 Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> References: <004d01c3a939$0ea6ac60$ac010a0a@eagleinvsys.com> <1068658819.14694.111.camel@penguin.mshome> Message-ID: <20031112211706.GA21958@server.sunrise-linux.com> and don't forget people, fedora is a OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY PROJECT, if you want to work on a distro, work on that... building a distro is alot of work. -miah On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 12:40:20PM -0500, Grant Young wrote: > And now for the curmudgeonly view: > > Ugh... Another distribution??? > > While I'm disappointed with Red Hat's decision to pull out of the > low-end distribution market I'd have to say that the effort to make it > work they put in was way out of whack with the return they saw. The > main reason to use Red Hat was to have the brand name and possibility of > paid support behind it. > > Trying to roll yet another distribution won't bring back the brand name > support that gives comfort to the PHBs giving the go ahead for Linux. > If they're willing to shell out just buy the Red Hat offering. The cost > is still relatively insignificant to their bottom line. If they won't > or can't afford it just pick some other existing distribution like Suse > or Debian or Gentoo that fulfills your philosophical bent and technical > needs. The maintainers of the those distros will appreciate the > support. This is my personal view. One of the great things I love > about Linux and Open Source is the freedom to do stuff like rolling your > own distribution. It's just not my cup of tea. > > I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did have > experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with non-Athenized > applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a disaster. Project > Athena solves the workstation application and file server maintenance > problem for MIT very, very well and their programmers do an amazing job > keeping things up to date. The thing that makes Athena work well is its > elegantly engineered rigidity. But in my experience the tweaks and > improvements they put in for their environment usually mess up services > and interfaces expected by many applications. YMMV. > > On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 11:47, Derek Atkins wrote: > > "Anand Rao" writes: > > > > > I am in for it. I feel this will is a great great Idea Ready to help this > > > project. > > > > For what it's worth, you may want to look at what MIT is doing with > > "Linux-Athena". It (currently) a Red Hat based distribution with an > > automatic (push/pull) update system which allows centralized control > > of lots of workstations with similar configuration. > > > > -derek > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From gboyce at badbelly.com Wed Nov 12 17:36:25 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:36:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: <20031112211706.GA21958@server.sunrise-linux.com> Message-ID: I don't believe that the Fedora project itself isn't really usable for anyone who's looking to support a large number of machines without having to completely upgrade them every 4-6 months since that's the projected life cycle of the project. There has been talk about a fedora legacy project that will provide extended support beyond that length of time, but right now I'm not willing to bet my time and the companies money on an unproven project working out. If the fedora legacy stuff gets dropped, then we're in a bad situation. Maybe when Fedora Core 2 is released, and the extended support of Fedora Core 1 is a proven thing. On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, miah wrote: > and don't forget people, fedora is a OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY PROJECT, if you want to work on a distro, work on that... building a distro is alot of work. > > -miah > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 12:40:20PM -0500, Grant Young wrote: > > And now for the curmudgeonly view: > > > > Ugh... Another distribution??? > > > > While I'm disappointed with Red Hat's decision to pull out of the > > low-end distribution market I'd have to say that the effort to make it > > work they put in was way out of whack with the return they saw. The > > main reason to use Red Hat was to have the brand name and possibility of > > paid support behind it. > > > > Trying to roll yet another distribution won't bring back the brand name > > support that gives comfort to the PHBs giving the go ahead for Linux. > > If they're willing to shell out just buy the Red Hat offering. The cost > > is still relatively insignificant to their bottom line. If they won't > > or can't afford it just pick some other existing distribution like Suse > > or Debian or Gentoo that fulfills your philosophical bent and technical > > needs. The maintainers of the those distros will appreciate the > > support. This is my personal view. One of the great things I love > > about Linux and Open Source is the freedom to do stuff like rolling your > > own distribution. It's just not my cup of tea. > > > > I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did have > > experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with non-Athenized > > applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a disaster. Project > > Athena solves the workstation application and file server maintenance > > problem for MIT very, very well and their programmers do an amazing job > > keeping things up to date. The thing that makes Athena work well is its > > elegantly engineered rigidity. But in my experience the tweaks and > > improvements they put in for their environment usually mess up services > > and interfaces expected by many applications. YMMV. > > > > On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 11:47, Derek Atkins wrote: > > > "Anand Rao" writes: > > > > > > > I am in for it. I feel this will is a great great Idea Ready to help this > > > > project. > > > > > > For what it's worth, you may want to look at what MIT is doing with > > > "Linux-Athena". It (currently) a Red Hat based distribution with an > > > automatic (push/pull) update system which allows centralized control > > > of lots of workstations with similar configuration. > > > > > > -derek > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at blu.org > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From gboyce at badbelly.com Wed Nov 12 17:39:12 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:39:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <20031112175810.M17420@coats.org> Message-ID: Looks interesting, but I'm not sure what the benefits of this are as opposed to something like an Apt or Yum repository of errata packages. Are they planning on rolling their own errata packages once Redhat stops providing them? If so, how much time are they putting into QA on them? On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Jack Coats wrote: > If you want a 'vendor' model, go check out the KRUD distribution at tummy.com > ... They have been repackaging RH for years, and are addressing the demise > of the free RH distribution even as we speak. > > .. JC (just a happy customer of Tummy.com/Krud) > > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:33:24 -0500 (EST), gboyce wrote > > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Bill Horne wrote: > > > > > TWIMC, > > > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > > > > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > > > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > > > server. > > > > > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > > > I love this idea. I'm supporting a large number of desktop machines > > at my work that are currently running Redhat 7.3, and I've been > > trying to figure out what to move them to after the end of the year. > > > > I needed something that could be net installed easily with something > > similiar to kickstart, and that worked with all the programs we > > currently depend on. I contemplated building the enterprise version > > from source, but I figured it was too much work for the number of > > machines I'm supporting. > > > > I'm more than happy to help with this project if we get enough > > people who are interested. > > > > Greg > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at blu.org > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > From robertlaferla at comcast.net Wed Nov 12 18:46:55 2003 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (Robert La Ferla) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:46:55 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home computer with GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <20031112170101.A8332270A6@asgard.blu.org> References: <20031112170101.A8332270A6@asgard.blu.org> Message-ID: <3FB2C66F.10400@comcast.net> I think you should try "Lindows" or "RedHat". Lindows is more suited for home use. Walmart uses it for their home computers. RedHat is more advanced and is well supported. Lindows http://www.lindows.com RedHat http://www.redhat.com From bconway at alum.wpi.edu Wed Nov 12 20:14:23 2003 From: bconway at alum.wpi.edu (Brian J. Conway) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:14:23 -0500 Subject: Another distribution?? But why? In-Reply-To: References: <20031112211706.GA21958@server.sunrise-linux.com> Message-ID: <20031112201423.42f9f6f1.bconway@alum.wpi.edu> Not to throw some more fuel on the flames, it doesn't look like the first release turned out as well as expected: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5111 Slashdot is full of the usual anecdote-as-evidence of people migrating from the product to other distributions, but I think I've come to expect that. Time will tell. -b On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:36:25 -0500 (EST) gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > I don't believe that the Fedora project itself isn't really usable for > anyone who's looking to support a large number of machines without > having to completely upgrade them every 4-6 months since that's the > projected life cycle of the project. > > There has been talk about a fedora legacy project that will provide > extended support beyond that length of time, but right now I'm not > willing to bet my time and the companies money on an unproven project > working out. If the fedora legacy stuff gets dropped, then we're in a > bad situation. > > Maybe when Fedora Core 2 is released, and the extended support of Fedora > Core 1 is a proven thing. > > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, miah wrote: > > > and don't forget people, fedora is a OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY PROJECT, if > > you want to work on a distro, work on that... building a distro is > > alot of work. > > > > -miah > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 12:40:20PM -0500, Grant Young wrote: > > > And now for the curmudgeonly view: > > > > > > Ugh... Another distribution??? > > > > > > While I'm disappointed with Red Hat's decision to pull out of the > > > low-end distribution market I'd have to say that the effort to make > > > it work they put in was way out of whack with the return they saw. > > > The main reason to use Red Hat was to have the brand name and > > > possibility of paid support behind it. > > > > > > Trying to roll yet another distribution won't bring back the brand > > > name support that gives comfort to the PHBs giving the go ahead for > > > Linux. If they're willing to shell out just buy the Red Hat > > > offering. The cost is still relatively insignificant to their > > > bottom line. If they won't or can't afford it just pick some other > > > existing distribution like Suse or Debian or Gentoo that fulfills > > > your philosophical bent and technical needs. The maintainers of the > > > those distros will appreciate the support. This is my personal > > > view. One of the great things I love about Linux and Open Source is > > > the freedom to do stuff like rolling your own distribution. It's > > > just not my cup of tea. > > > > > > I haven't personally used the Linux-Athena distribution but I did > > > have experience trying to use the earlier Athena versions with > > > non-Athenized applications (like Oracle) and it was pretty much a > > > disaster. Project Athena solves the workstation application and > > > file server maintenance problem for MIT very, very well and their > > > programmers do an amazing job keeping things up to date. The thing > > > that makes Athena work well is its elegantly engineered rigidity. > > > But in my experience the tweaks and improvements they put in for > > > their environment usually mess up services and interfaces expected > > > by many applications. YMMV. > > > > > > On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 11:47, Derek Atkins wrote: > > > > "Anand Rao" writes: > > > > > > > > > I am in for it. I feel this will is a great great Idea Ready > > > > > to help this project. > > > > > > > > For what it's worth, you may want to look at what MIT is doing > > > > with"Linux-Athena". It (currently) a Red Hat based distribution > > > > with an automatic (push/pull) update system which allows > > > > centralized control of lots of workstations with similar > > > > configuration. > > > > > > > > -derek > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > Discuss at blu.org > > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at blu.org > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From adler at bnl.gov Thu Nov 13 00:58:13 2003 From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:58:13 -0500 Subject: quick note on Fedora Message-ID: <1068703093.4292.2.camel@h00502c078d67.ne.client2.attbi.com> I just installed Fedora and I'm sending this e-mail out from it. Hey... I like it. The fonts in evolution are nicely rendered and the kernel it comes with seems to have a better memory management system. Mozilla seems to pop up much more quickly than under red hat 9. This is basically running fedora right out of the box (and doing a upgrade on top of my pc running red hat 9) Cheers. Steve. From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 13 01:45:40 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:45:40 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell Message-ID: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> OK. I went out and bought Suse 9.0 Professional so I could just do the install once with the latest stuff, and maybe the install will be better or maybe I will wave the dead chicken over it just right. The upshot is that I saw a lot of configuration screens after the reboot that I did not see before, and lots of stuff just Worked Better. Not everything, though. And not that I'm the kind of geek to say "I told you so" (well, not all the time), but almost every problem I had seems to be caused by too many configuration files controlling the same service. For instance, apache was controlled by not only /etc/httpd/httpd.conf, but several other files in that directory, at least one in /etc/sysconfig/, and a Yast module. I needed to remove one piece of functionality that was not only causing me problems but I had no idea what it was (midgard), and I had to edit no less than six configuration files before Apache would forget about it and move on. I have preached many a time about the evils of having multiple files and/or non-text databases controlling services. They WILL get out of sync (as mine did) and you WILL be screwed. Another great example of this is XFree86. There are three or four config programs that come with it, and not only are there two different copies (NOT synchronized) named the same thing in different directories, but on my Red Hat 7.3 system, both the command and the config file were named XF86Config! You know what's really missing though? A post-install service that would keep track of what services are installed that have yet to be configured and which ones are active and inactive. And a link to the project's website. Ferinstance, Because I dared try installing courier-imap instead of uw-imap, there was no post-install or yast configuration for IMAP, and no indication that it was not configured to start up on 2,3,4,5. My biggest bitches with the installer are: - There is no way to get more than a sentence or two on each package during package selection. Certainly no way to get a list of files. This left me in the dark on what a lot of the packages were. Any info in the RPM should be accessible from the installer BEFORE I install it. - When you go through the normal package selection screen, you are only presented a small percentage of the packages, but there's no indication of that. You have to just know to go into Packages By Group (or something like that) to see all the packages. That's one reason I missed a ton of critical stuff the first time. Biggest compliment: Back buttons **THANK YOU** Not rocket science, but apparently beyond Red Hat's abilities until recently too. The current state of my machine: The good: -Apache is finally rockin' with all 13 domain names -Postfix is doing the same, plus or minus some minor problems, but I haven't tried mailman configuration yet. The bad: -courier-imap is still not letting me log in through any of the four email clients I've tried. This is a BIG DEAL. I still have to bring up my mbox files in a text editor to see my email. At least I can get courier-imap to run, even if I can't connect to it. -Despite having my exact video card and monitor in the database, I cannot get rid of this distortion at the top of the screen- It's sorta like someone took slivers out of the top of the screen- there are a few thick black lines running from one side to another right where I need to click on title bar decorations. -Cut and paste is not working in a consistent way, especially in Konsole where I need ot the most. By the way, when I partitioned everything out, I set up swap and /tmp on the old hard drive so they were on separate spindles. Well, I wasn't expecting that disk to start crapping out with increasing frequency. Fortunately I got the machine booted eventually so I could repartition the new drive and take the old one out of service. Hard to pin that one on Suse though... ;) I'm willing to do more research before begging for help on courier-imap, but thanks for all the help I've gotten so far. -- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D $> man woman DK KD segmentation fault (core dumped) DDDD $> From invalid at pizzashack.org Thu Nov 13 02:35:21 2003 From: invalid at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:35:21 +0900 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:45:40AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > -Cut and paste is not working in a consistent way, especially in Konsole where > I need ot the most. You could use xterm instead. It's better than either konsole or gnome-term in almost every conceivable way, IMNSHO. A perfect case of "why try to fix what isn't broken" if you ask me. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 13 06:16:23 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:16:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: <1068703093.4292.2.camel@h00502c078d67.ne.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: I've been pretty impressed by most of Fedora as well. There have been some great improvements over previous releases. There are quite a few things that are still rather buggy though. I love the RandR support in Gnome (not really redhat specific, but still nice). Shared machines can now automatically set to different resolutions based on who logs into it. This will be great for my families computer. Redhat also added NTPL (new threading library) support into the kernel and it's program. It's probably the biggest change to the kernel, and ended up speeding things up nicely. A lot more hardware is autodetected. It looks like they did a bunch of work on hotplug scripts for autoloading of kernel modules. A lot of modules I used to have to load by hand work automatically now. I like the new music ripper (soundjuicer) and music player (rhythmbox). The up2date program now supports apt and yum repositories, making it a bit easier to setup your own update server, or to pull in custom packages. As for problems.. My sony Clie now causes kernel panics Soundjuicer seems to require a restart after each cd, or it doesn't extract tracks correctly. Firstboot hasn't been showing up properly for me when the machine is first started. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: > I just installed Fedora and I'm sending this e-mail out from it. > Hey... I like it. The fonts in evolution are nicely rendered and > the kernel it comes with seems to have a better memory management > system. Mozilla seems to pop up much more quickly than under > red hat 9. This is basically running fedora right out of the > box (and doing a upgrade on top of my pc running red hat 9) > > Cheers. Steve. > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From colet at code-energy.com Thu Nov 13 06:44:08 2003 From: colet at code-energy.com (Cole Tuininga) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:44:08 -0500 Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1068723847.1823.3.camel@colap> On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 06:16, gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > As for problems.. [snip] I tried both beta 3 and the final release and in both cases have been bit by a particular issue. Trying to use the built in "Package Add/Remove" fails on adding any new software. I go through and choose what I want to add, it calculates dependencies, gets to the point where it asks for a particular CD, I put the CD in and click "ok" ... only to have it give me a very generic "An error occurred" type of error. I know I can just pop the CD in and look for the rpms I want, I was just interested to try and have the full "non geek end user" experience. -- Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage. Cole Tuininga Lead Developer Code Energy, Inc colet at code-energy.com PGP Key ID: 0x43E5755D From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 13 08:08:12 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:08:12 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> Message-ID: <20031113130812.GA7773@uni.thekramers.net> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 04:35:21PM +0900, Derek Martin wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:45:40AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > > -Cut and paste is not working in a consistent way, especially in Konsole where > > I need ot the most. > > You could use xterm instead. It's better than either konsole or > gnome-term in almost every conceivable way, IMNSHO. A perfect case of > "why try to fix what isn't broken" if you ask me. Because I tend to open a lot of terminals, so Konsole's tabbed interface having many terminals open in one application with easy switching works for me, I haven't seen another program that does that. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an DK KD earth-shattering kaboom." DDDD - Marvin the Martian From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 13 08:53:13 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:53:13 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> Message-ID: <20031113085313.7f065477.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:35:21 +0900 Derek Martin wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:45:40AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > > -Cut and paste is not working in a consistent way, especially in > > Konsole where I need ot the most. > > You could use xterm instead. It's better than either konsole or > gnome-term in almost every conceivable way, IMNSHO. A perfect case of > "why try to fix what isn't broken" if you ask me. I also prefer Xterm. The only thing I like about Konsole is that you can easily change the colors of an existing term. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/s4zJ+wA+1cUGHqkRAop1AJ9Hsq6GyPqM67C8pKPR+XL69RWxzwCdGoEC n2V+3S0Ev9MrWCVt0hMVV+4= =OAvO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 13 08:54:21 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:54:21 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113130812.GA7773@uni.thekramers.net> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> <20031113130812.GA7773@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031113085421.64eb0107.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:08:12 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > Because I tend to open a lot of terminals, so Konsole's tabbed > interface having many terminals open in one application with easy > switching works for me, I haven't seen another program that does that. Yes, that is also an excellent feature of Konsole, but with the KDE task bar, you can do a similar thing. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/s40N+wA+1cUGHqkRAoS7AJ40okJxCJpgi/ulj3hLJSHEfkEf4wCeN6Yz 1iGQXpKtLcpGLfWXGSj/CfY= =XGWx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bconway at alum.wpi.edu Thu Nov 13 09:00:35 2003 From: bconway at alum.wpi.edu (Brian J. Conway) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:00:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113085421.64eb0107.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> <20031113130812.GA7773@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113085421.64eb0107.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Jerry Feldman wrote: > > Because I tend to open a lot of terminals, so Konsole's tabbed > > interface having many terminals open in one application with easy > > switching works for me, I haven't seen another program that does that. > Yes, that is also an excellent feature of Konsole, but with the KDE task > bar, you can do a similar thing. Screen, baby. ;-) All the advantages of tabs, but you can reconnect to a terminal from anywhere you have remote access. Brian J. Conway bconway at alum.wpi.edu "LINUX is obsolete" - Andrew S. Tanenbaum, creator of Minix - Jan 29, 1992 From invalid at pizzashack.org Thu Nov 13 09:05:14 2003 From: invalid at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:05:14 +0900 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> <20031113130812.GA7773@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113085421.64eb0107.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031113140514.GA20777@sophic.org> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:00:35AM -0500, Brian J. Conway wrote: > > > Because I tend to open a lot of terminals, so Konsole's tabbed > > > interface having many terminals open in one application with easy > > > switching works for me, I haven't seen another program that does that. That's interesting... Personally, I find having lots of terminal windows to be very confusing. More than two or three is usually more than I need. But that's me... > > Yes, that is also an excellent feature of Konsole, but with the KDE task > > bar, you can do a similar thing. > > Screen, baby. ;-) All the advantages of tabs, but you can reconnect to a > terminal from anywhere you have remote access. Bingo. And even better, if your session is interrupted by a network outage, you don't lose your session. screen + xterm rocks. -- Derek D. Martin http://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. From jullrich at euclidian.com Thu Nov 13 09:05:43 2003 From: jullrich at euclidian.com (Johannes Ullrich) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:05:43 -0500 Subject: grsecrutiy + RedHat 9 = crash Message-ID: <1068732343.8183.63.camel@bart> In case anybody else woke up to a crashed machine this morning: The latest glibc update for RedHat 9 doesn't work if you use grsecurity / PaX :-(. Details and a nice "bugzilla flame fest": https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=109918 -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Johannes Ullrich jullrich at euclidian.com pgp key: http://johannes.homepc.org/PGPKEYS -------------------------------------------------------------- "We regret to inform you that we do not enable any of the security functions within the routers that we install." support at covad.net -------------------------------------------------------------- From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 13 09:12:10 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:12:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: <1068723847.1823.3.camel@colap> Message-ID: I didn't even notice that problem since I just avoided using the add/remove software completely. I didn't want to have to get the CDs from my office in order to add packages, so I've been using yum, which is configured by default. yum install packagename Of course, at that point, you need to know what package you want. That's not always the case. They should really add yum support into "add/remove software" so that you can have the option of installing from the net rather than from a CD. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Cole Tuininga wrote: > On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 06:16, gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > > As for problems.. > [snip] > > I tried both beta 3 and the final release and in both cases have been > bit by a particular issue. Trying to use the built in "Package > Add/Remove" fails on adding any new software. > > I go through and choose what I want to add, it calculates dependencies, > gets to the point where it asks for a particular CD, I put the CD in and > click "ok" ... only to have it give me a very generic "An error > occurred" type of error. > > I know I can just pop the CD in and look for the rpms I want, I was just > interested to try and have the full "non geek end user" experience. > > From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 13 09:13:47 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:13:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Brian J. Conway wrote: > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Jerry Feldman wrote: > > > > Because I tend to open a lot of terminals, so Konsole's tabbed > > > interface having many terminals open in one application with easy > > > switching works for me, I haven't seen another program that does that. > > Yes, that is also an excellent feature of Konsole, but with the KDE task > > bar, you can do a similar thing. > > Screen, baby. ;-) All the advantages of tabs, but you can reconnect to a > terminal from anywhere you have remote access. Does screen have a scroll buffer? I usually find that when I'm using screen, I can't get back to data that already scrolled off my screen. Shift-pageup doesn't seem to do the right thing. Is there another command I should be using? If not, then screen really doesn't cut it for me (might be fine for others though). From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 13 09:14:22 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:14:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113130812.GA7773@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 04:35:21PM +0900, Derek Martin wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:45:40AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: > > > -Cut and paste is not working in a consistent way, especially in Konsole where > > > I need ot the most. > > > > You could use xterm instead. It's better than either konsole or > > gnome-term in almost every conceivable way, IMNSHO. A perfect case of > > "why try to fix what isn't broken" if you ask me. > > Because I tend to open a lot of terminals, so Konsole's tabbed interface having > many terminals open in one application with easy switching works for me, > I haven't seen another program that does that. As of gnome2, gnome-terminal has tabbed support as well. I'm using it right now. -- Greg From jc at trillian.mit.edu Thu Nov 13 09:35:55 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:35:55 UTC Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031013143555.49560.jc> Derek Martin writes: | | On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:45:40AM -0500, David Kramer wrote: | > -Cut and paste is not working in a consistent way, especially in Konsole where | > I need ot the most. | | You could use xterm instead. It's better than either konsole or | gnome-term in almost every conceivable way, IMNSHO. A perfect case of | "why try to fix what isn't broken" if you ask me. Yeah; that's what I do. But one problem I keep stumbling across: Almost every linux distribution has some terminal emulator that is pushed instead of xterm, and xterm is usually hidden so that you waste time finding it. Often it's not to be found anywhere in the menus, and it's not in the default user path. So you have to fire up the approved terminal emulator, hunt around for xterm, and type an 'xterm' command. And you need to take the time to add the directory to your path, so you won't have to go through all that again later. It's not that big a deal, but it's a waste of time at a point where you're usually under a lot of pressure to get things up and running. What would be handy is if we could get a campaign going to try to persuade the packagers of distros to always make the "generic" tools like xterm easily available via both the default menus and the default user search path. This would make life a lot easier for those of us who routinely work on a lot of different machines. -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 13 09:37:23 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:37:23 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031113093723.419cf28b.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:45:40 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > I have preached many a time about the evils of having multiple files > and/or non-text databases controlling services. They WILL get out of > sync (as mine did) and you WILL be screwed. Another great example of > this is XFree86. There are three or four config programs that come > with it, and not only are there two different copies (NOT > synchronized) named the same thing in different directories, but on my > Red Hat 7.3 system, both the command and the config file were named > XF86Config! Centralized configuration has been used in both commercial Unix as well as in Linux. The /etc/sysconfig stuff is really from LSB. The advantages of a central configuration is that there is a single place you can go to configure everything. But, as we both have found out, the central configuration does not always work the way you want it to. (In my case, I have never been able to get Sendmail to work correctly from YaST, and have always placed my changes directly into /etc/sendmail.cf). David has also documented his opinions on this for years. My background is from Tru64 Unix, and we had a centralized config file (/etc/rc.config) for years. X is still controlled from /etc/X11/XF86Config. I think that the issue with a centralized system management utility and database is that it overrides and changes you might make locally. But, most centralized managers allow you do disable some features. In YaST you can tell it not to control things. For instance, in the sysconfig editor, just go under network/WWW/apache and set ENABLE_SYSCONFIG_APACHE to no. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/s5cj+wA+1cUGHqkRAqrjAJsHdMNYx0ZUTVUaybUPXqdrL8wcPACfQNIC Cez06XI6PQIMDiNtxKryYWQ= =86/X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nmeyers at javalinux.net Thu Nov 13 09:39:56 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:39:56 -0500 Subject: Another response to Red Hat's Enterprise Linux move Message-ID: <20031113143956.GA14387@javalinux.net> Here's another response, all the way from Tyngsboro, to Red Hat's move away from free distributions: http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,61166,00.html Nathan From jc at trillian.mit.edu Thu Nov 13 10:06:59 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:06:59 UTC Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113085313.7f065477.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> Message-ID: <20031013150659.51776.jc> Jerry Feldman writes: | Derek Martin wrote: | > You could use xterm instead. It's better than either konsole or | > gnome-term in almost every conceivable way, IMNSHO. A perfect case of | > "why try to fix what isn't broken" if you ask me. | I also prefer Xterm. The only thing I like about Konsole is that you can | easily change the colors of an existing term. Yeah; it's funny that xterm has never had a menu to do this. It would be useful. I wonder why this was left out, considering xterm's near-infinite set of options and config settings? OTOH, I've had a cute little xterm startup script that I call 'xrand' that I've used for years: : cat ~/sh/xrand #!/bin/sh # Exec an xterm with random colors. There should be a $HOME/.colors # file full of xterm command-line color options. A blank line will # get the default colors. # S='-g 90x36' O='-cm -bdc -ulc -dc +pc -sb' if [ ! -f $HOME/.colors ];then echo "Can't find $HOME/.colors file." c=`-bg black -fg yellow` else m=`date +%H%M%S` n=`wc -l<$HOME/.colors` l=`expr $ $m '+' $$ $ % $n + 1` c=`head <$HOME/.colors -$l |tail -1` fi xterm -name xrand $S $O $c $* & exit 0 The $HOME/.colors file contains lines like: -fg yellow -bg black -cm -cr red -fg green -bg navy -cm -cr red -fg cyan -bg DarkGreen -cm -cr red -fg pink -bg grey30 -cm -cr white and so on, whatever produces good contrasts on the machine's display. One obvious question is: Shouldn't this be written in perl? Well, yes, it should be. I did it as a sh script mostly as a fun demo of ultra-geek shell wizardry. ("You did the arithmetic in a shell script just to pick a random line? Are you insane?" ;-) It certainly isn't efficient. But how often do you start a new xterm? -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From bill at horne.net Thu Nov 13 10:13:25 2003 From: bill at horne.net (Bill Horne) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:13:25 -0500 Subject: Has anyone compiled the Enterprise version of Redhat? Message-ID: <002301c3a9f8$aff70190$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> TWIMC, If you or someone you know is using a version of Redhat Enterprise Linux that you compiled from the sources, please let me know. Thanks in advance. Bill -- Bill Horne 781 784-7287 "I have always wished for a computer that would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish came true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." Bjarne Stronstrup From bobleigh at twomeeps.com Thu Nov 13 10:10:30 2003 From: bobleigh at twomeeps.com (Bob Leigh) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:10:30 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: ; from gboyce@badbelly.com on Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:13:47AM -0500 References:

Message-ID: <20031113101030.B31715@bloop.local> gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > Does screen have a scroll buffer? I usually find that when I'm using > screen, I can't get back to data that already scrolled off my screen. > Shift-pageup doesn't seem to do the right thing. Yes, there's a scrollback buffer per "window". > Is there another command I should be using? If not, then screen really > doesn't cut it for me (might be fine for others though). From warlord at MIT.EDU Thu Nov 13 10:23:13 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:23:13 -0500 Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: (gboyce@badbelly.com's message of "Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:16:23 -0500 (EST)") References: Message-ID: gboyce at badbelly.com writes: > Redhat also added NTPL (new threading library) support into the kernel > and it's program. It's probably the biggest change to the kernel, and > ended up speeding things up nicely. FWIW, NTPL was in RH9. It's caused me no end of grief trying to debug a threaded application. Hopefully fedora will work better when I decide to upgrade.. But it's been a royal PITA trying to debug my mythtv box due to NTPL. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From mark at buttery.org Thu Nov 13 10:24:55 2003 From: mark at buttery.org (Mark J. Dulcey) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:24:55 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031013143555.49560.jc> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031013143555.49560.jc> Message-ID: <3FB3A247.6010401@buttery.org> John Chambers wrote: > > Yeah; that's what I do. But one problem I keep stumbling across: > Almost every linux distribution has some terminal emulator that is > pushed instead of xterm, and xterm is usually hidden so that you > waste time finding it. Often it's not to be found anywhere in the > menus, and it's not in the default user path. So you have to fire up > the approved terminal emulator, hunt around for xterm, and type an > 'xterm' command. > > And you need to take the time to add the directory to your path, so > you won't have to go through all that again later. Like SuSE, you mean? xterm IS in the menus (under System/Terminal Applications), and it's in the path. True, they DO make konsole easier to get to (it has a toolbar icon) - after all, it is a KDE-centric distro - but xterm isn't buried too deeply. Heck, they even have gnome-terminal in the path and the menu - if you have installed gnome, of course. From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 13 10:46:12 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:46:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Derek Atkins wrote: > gboyce at badbelly.com writes: > > > Redhat also added NTPL (new threading library) support into the kernel > > and it's program. It's probably the biggest change to the kernel, and > > ended up speeding things up nicely. > > FWIW, NTPL was in RH9. It's caused me no end of grief trying to debug > a threaded application. Hopefully fedora will work better when I > decide to upgrade.. But it's been a royal PITA trying to debug my > mythtv box due to NTPL. Ahh yes, that's right. I remember that it was in the Betas, but I thought it was pulled before release due to stability problems. Thinking back, I think that was the ACPI support though. -- Greg From warlord at MIT.EDU Thu Nov 13 11:46:47 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:46:47 -0500 Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: (gboyce@badbelly.com's message of "Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:46:12 -0500 (EST)") References: Message-ID: gboyce at badbelly.com writes: > I remember that it was in the Betas, but I thought it was pulled before > release due to stability problems. Thinking back, I think that was the > ACPI support though. Yea, ACPI was pulled from RH9, but NPTL was kept. I wish it were the other way around. Is ACPI in Fedora? -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 13 11:45:37 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:45:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Derek Atkins wrote: > gboyce at badbelly.com writes: > > > I remember that it was in the Betas, but I thought it was pulled before > > release due to stability problems. Thinking back, I think that was the > > ACPI support though. > > Yea, ACPI was pulled from RH9, but NPTL was kept. I wish it were the > other way around. > > Is ACPI in Fedora? ACPI is comiled into the kernel in Fedora, but disabled by default. Just add "acpi=on" to the kernel commandline if you want to use it. -- Greg From warlord at MIT.EDU Thu Nov 13 11:57:04 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:57:04 -0500 Subject: quick note on Fedora In-Reply-To: (gboyce@badbelly.com's message of "Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:45:37 -0500 (EST)") References: Message-ID: gboyce at badbelly.com writes: > ACPI is comiled into the kernel in Fedora, but disabled by default. > Just add "acpi=on" to the kernel commandline if you want to use it. Cool. I wonder if that will let me hibernate my laptop... :) Thanks, -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 13 15:40:25 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:40:25 -0500 Subject: Fw: Looking for a linux Tech Support person posting Message-ID: <20031113154025.774cf6df.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Please respond directly to Gary Green Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:05:46 -0500 From: Gary Green To: jaf at blu.org Subject: Looking for a linux Tech Support person posting Hi Jerry- Matt suggested I talk with you. Would it be possible to post the following position on BLU? Thanks, Gary Green Voltaire ( www.voltaire.com) is a pioneer in InfiniBand technology and the leading provider of InfiniBand solutions to the high performance computing and enterprise data center markets. We are seeking an individual for the role of Technical Support Engineer. ONLY QUALIFIED CANDIDATES RESUME'S WILL BE REVIEWED! Required skills and knowledge: * Expert level experience with multiple Linux distributions * Experience with Clustered computing environments (prefer candidates with MPI experience) * Knowledge of networking technologies including TCP/IP, DHCP, bootp, RSH, http, etc... Additional Pluses: * Certifications with various Linux platforms (RedHat, SuSE, etc...), Relational Database Platforms (DB2, Oracle, etc...), and Application Servers (WebSphere, Oracle App Server, etc...) * Experience with clustered computing environments including MPI * Experience with high speed networking fabrics including Myrinet, Quadrics, etc... * Experience with storage networking including Fibre Channel To be considered for this role, Please send an email to hr at voltaire.com with your resume attached in DOC, PDF or RTF format. Position Overview: The primary role of the Technical Support Engineer position is to support our customers, partners, channels and account teams with any technical issues related to our products. The Technical Support Engineer will work with our customers to implement appropriate corrective actions and to perform testing in our lab when necessary. The Technical Support Engineer will be responsible to ensure that all issues are resolved or escalated in a timely manner. We are looking for a top performer, who acts professionally at all times and is effective at providing technical support over the phone, via email and on site. Additional responsibilities may include interacting with product management and helping to improve internal processes. Summary of Responsibilities: * Provide Post Sales Technical Support via phone, email and web to customers, partners, channels and sales teams * Investigate and resolve incoming issues in a timely and effective manner * Assist in the creation of technical documentation (Support Bulletins, FAQ's, white papers) * Work within company to constantly improve processes and to ensure support organization has the necessary resources * Document all contact activity, including troubleshooting steps and problem resolution Voltaire offers competitive compensation based on experience. To be considered for this role, Please send an email to hr at voltaire.com with your resume attached in DOC, PDF or RTF format. *** No phone calls, please. *** Gary Green Manager Customer Systems Engineering Voltaire email: garyg at voltaire.com phone: 781-276-1569 cell: 781-248-0060 - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/s+w5+wA+1cUGHqkRAg9pAJ9YREx0eJuF8MuS7O/4J2EFQyNtQQCeOd/g HYuWB4rz43aMiV40ISh+XBg= =cXnt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu Thu Nov 13 16:49:51 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:49:51 -0500 Subject: Refund Message-ID: Exactly how do you get refunded if you do not open the microsoft products with your new dell home desktop computer?... Microsoft money back guarantee call center did not have the information. From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Thu Nov 13 18:41:39 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:41:39 -0800 Subject: Refund In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031113234139.GA1147@server.sunrise-linux.com> Windows Refund Day! http://www.linuxmafia.com/refund/ Look at the 'Microsoft Windows Refund Resources' section. -miah On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 04:49:51PM -0500, Don Saklad wrote: > Exactly how do you get refunded if you do not open the microsoft products > with your new dell home desktop computer?... > > > Microsoft money back guarantee call center did not have the information. > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Thu Nov 13 19:31:24 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:31:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Can't get a gnome session? Message-ID: Ok, this isn't cool. I've been running Redhat 9 with Ximian happily for weeks now, periodically getting the software updates that are recommended. Today all of a sudden java stopped working, throwing vm errors. I reboot...and now I can't even get a gnome session. As in, I log in and gnome tells me "Your session lasted less than 10 seconds. Use a failsafe session and see if you can fix the problem." So I'm in a failsafe session now and ssh'd into my mail machine to send a help message :). Here's the message I get now if I try to run red-carpet, for instance, to get fresh updates: GThread-ERROR **: file gthread-posix.c: line 135 (): error 'No such process' during 'pthread_getschedparam (pthread_self(), &policy, &sched)' aborting... Help? I don't care about red-carpet, but not being able to boot Gnome stinks. I am getting very bad flashbacks. A red-carpet crash that cost me my home directory on a past machine is what caused me to give up on Redhat and switch to Mandrake originally, and I've only recently come back to Redhat 9. Duane From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 13 19:31:00 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:31:00 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <3FB3A247.6010401@buttery.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031013143555.49560.jc> <3FB3A247.6010401@buttery.org> Message-ID: <20031113193100.20244ffe.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:24:55 -0500 "Mark J. Dulcey" wrote: > John Chambers wrote: > > > > Yeah; that's what I do. But one problem I keep stumbling > > across: Almost every linux distribution has some terminal > > emulator that is pushed instead of xterm, and xterm is usually > > hidden so that you waste time finding it. Often it's not to > > be found anywhere in the menus, and it's not in the default user > > path. So you have to fire up the approved terminal emulator, > > hunt around for xterm, and type an'xterm' command. > > > > And you need to take the time to add the directory to your path, > > so you won't have to go through all that again later. > > Like SuSE, you mean? xterm IS in the menus (under System/Terminal > Applications), and it's in the path. True, they DO make konsole easier > > to get to (it has a toolbar icon) - after all, it is a KDE-centric > distro - but xterm isn't buried too deeply. Specifically it's in the SuSE menu tree: SuSE/System/Terminal Applications. I simply make a button for it on the panel and the desktop. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tCJE+wA+1cUGHqkRAjgAAJ97LHgtNw+pucTLOKgw2dBycgC3XACdGKin kBXyVcYMwv/MljxxgEwGerk= =LL7n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 13 20:09:40 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:09:40 -0500 Subject: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031114010940.GA17348@uni.thekramers.net> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 07:31:24PM -0500, Duane Morin wrote: > Ok, this isn't cool. I've been running Redhat 9 with Ximian happily for > weeks now, periodically getting the software updates that are recommended. > Today all of a sudden java stopped working, throwing vm errors. > I reboot...and now I can't even get a gnome session. As in, I log in > and gnome tells me "Your session lasted less than 10 seconds. Use a > failsafe session and see if you can fix the problem." So I'm in a > failsafe session now and ssh'd into my mail machine to send a help > message :). > > Here's the message I get now if I try to run red-carpet, for instance, to > get fresh updates: > > GThread-ERROR **: file gthread-posix.c: line 135 (): error 'No such > process' during 'pthread_getschedparam (pthread_self(), &policy, &sched)' > aborting... I'd say 80% or higher chance this is caused by the new threads stuff that's being discussed on this list the past few days. Not that this information helps you directly. Sorry. > I am getting very bad flashbacks. A red-carpet crash that cost me my > home directory on a past machine is what caused me to give up on Redhat > and switch to Mandrake originally, and I've only recently come back > to Redhat 9. For the first time, I've set up a separate /home partition that will survive OS changes. I've always been in the "one big /" camp, but the odds of me reinstalling was high. Oh. And do backups. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D One nation, under Canada.... DK KD Robin Williams DDDD From jc at trillian.mit.edu Thu Nov 13 20:48:50 2003 From: jc at trillian.mit.edu (John Chambers) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:48:50 UTC Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031113192633.41923664.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> <20031013150659.51776.jc> Message-ID: <20031014014850.86680.jc> Jerry Feldman writes: | I stole John's xrand over 10 years ago and modified it for my use. I | don't use it for Linux, but I did for commercial Unix. Thief! ;-) Actually, I've gotten a number of fun messages from people who found that xrand script on my web site. They're usually along the lines of "Doing that in a sh script is twisted and demented; I love it!" I also used it once in an interview, to establish my shell scripting creds. I was disappointed that the guy I was talking to seemed to be favorably impressed by it. I've also used it as an argument for languages like perl, tcl or python. Starting up a subprocess to perform a simple integer calculation does appear to be the easiest way to do it in a sh script. This script really does fire up five subprocesses to read a file and select a random line based on the clock and process id. This is arguably even worse than the Intercal code to do the same task. The sh code is probably marginally simpler than the Intercal code, but the sh code's performance sucks so badly that it's no contest. It's only saving grace is that it's doing something that you usually don't want to do very often. Thus its value as an example. "The Bourne shell wasn't designed to do this sort of things, so criticising it is irrelevant. You should use a language that *was* designed for such things. Then if the code is irreducibly bad, you have a valid complaint. But there are several scripting languages in which this would be fast and readable." OTOH, it's fun to push a tool way past the logical limits of what it was designed for. -- O <:#/> John Chambers + / \ From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Thu Nov 13 21:25:42 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:25:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: <20031114010940.GA17348@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > I'd say 80% or higher chance this is caused by the new threads stuff that's > being discussed on this list the past few days. This list? I seem to have missed that -- was it hiding in a thread with a less than obvious subject line? The fedora stufF? Duane From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 13 22:20:21 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:20:21 -0500 Subject: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: References: <20031114010940.GA17348@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031114032021.GA21203@uni.thekramers.net> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:25:42PM -0500, Duane Morin wrote: > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > I'd say 80% or higher chance this is caused by the new threads stuff that's > > being discussed on this list the past few days. > > This list? I seem to have missed that -- was it hiding in a thread with a > less than obvious subject line? The fedora stufF? Yes, I think so. The Fedora thread. But as you know, I am extremely emailly challenged right now. I am learning mutt since I can point it at a mbox file and have it read it, but I am learning mutt in the way that one learns to use crutches when one breaks a leg- it's a poor substitute for a GUI reader, or even pine, but I can't just point pine at an mbox file AFAICT. Also, every time I fire up pine it moves my /var/spool/mail/david to /home/david/mbox, which is NOT desired behaviour by any means. Can't figure out how to stop it. Never did that on my RH 7.3 box. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD "We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff DKK D that works. How do you recognize something that is still technology? DK KD A good clue is if it comes with a manual." DDDD - Douglas Adams, in The Salmon of Doubt. (Harmony Books, 2002.) From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Thu Nov 13 22:47:31 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:47:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: <20031114010940.GA17348@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: Where goes the libgthread stuff live -- glibc? I don't mind digging in and looking at this gthread-posix.c file to see what the story is, but I'm stabbing in the dark at where I can find that (I only have lynx to work with right now). I pulled down glibc-2.3.2 but didn't find that file. Duane On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 07:31:24PM -0500, Duane Morin wrote: > > Ok, this isn't cool. I've been running Redhat 9 with Ximian happily for > > weeks now, periodically getting the software updates that are recommended. > > Today all of a sudden java stopped working, throwing vm errors. > > I reboot...and now I can't even get a gnome session. As in, I log in > > and gnome tells me "Your session lasted less than 10 seconds. Use a > > failsafe session and see if you can fix the problem." So I'm in a > > failsafe session now and ssh'd into my mail machine to send a help > > message :). > > > > Here's the message I get now if I try to run red-carpet, for instance, to > > get fresh updates: > > > > GThread-ERROR **: file gthread-posix.c: line 135 (): error 'No such > > process' during 'pthread_getschedparam (pthread_self(), &policy, &sched)' > > aborting... > > I'd say 80% or higher chance this is caused by the new threads stuff that's > being discussed on this list the past few days. > > Not that this information helps you directly. Sorry. > > > I am getting very bad flashbacks. A red-carpet crash that cost me my > > home directory on a past machine is what caused me to give up on Redhat > > and switch to Mandrake originally, and I've only recently come back > > to Redhat 9. > > For the first time, I've set up a separate /home partition that will survive > OS changes. I've always been in the "one big /" camp, but the odds of > me reinstalling was high. > > Oh. And do backups. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net > DK KD > DKK D One nation, under Canada.... > DK KD Robin Williams > DDDD > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From gboyce at badbelly.com Fri Nov 14 06:16:18 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:16:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The glib package, not the glibc package. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Duane Morin wrote: > Where goes the libgthread stuff live -- glibc? I don't mind digging in > and looking at this gthread-posix.c file to see what the story is, but I'm > stabbing in the dark at where I can find that (I only have lynx to work > with right now). > > I pulled down glibc-2.3.2 but didn't find that file. > > Duane > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 07:31:24PM -0500, Duane Morin wrote: > > > Ok, this isn't cool. I've been running Redhat 9 with Ximian happily for > > > weeks now, periodically getting the software updates that are recommended. > > > Today all of a sudden java stopped working, throwing vm errors. > > > I reboot...and now I can't even get a gnome session. As in, I log in > > > and gnome tells me "Your session lasted less than 10 seconds. Use a > > > failsafe session and see if you can fix the problem." So I'm in a > > > failsafe session now and ssh'd into my mail machine to send a help > > > message :). > > > > > > Here's the message I get now if I try to run red-carpet, for instance, to > > > get fresh updates: > > > > > > GThread-ERROR **: file gthread-posix.c: line 135 (): error 'No such > > > process' during 'pthread_getschedparam (pthread_self(), &policy, &sched)' > > > aborting... > > > > I'd say 80% or higher chance this is caused by the new threads stuff that's > > being discussed on this list the past few days. > > > > Not that this information helps you directly. Sorry. > > > > > I am getting very bad flashbacks. A red-carpet crash that cost me my > > > home directory on a past machine is what caused me to give up on Redhat > > > and switch to Mandrake originally, and I've only recently come back > > > to Redhat 9. > > > > For the first time, I've set up a separate /home partition that will survive > > OS changes. I've always been in the "one big /" camp, but the odds of > > me reinstalling was high. > > > > Oh. And do backups. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net > > DK KD > > DKK D One nation, under Canada.... > > DK KD Robin Williams > > DDDD > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at blu.org > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From gaf at blu.org Fri Nov 14 06:56:42 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:56:42 -0500 Subject: Update from my personal hell In-Reply-To: <20031014014850.86680.jc> References: <20031113064540.GA4653@uni.thekramers.net> <20031113073521.GC19655@sophic.org> <20031013150659.51776.jc> <20031014014850.86680.jc> Message-ID: <20031114065642.679ee04f.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:48:50 UTC John Chambers wrote: > OTOH, it's fun to push a tool way past the logical limits > of what it was designed for. Yup, but that is what we get paid for sometimes. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tML6+wA+1cUGHqkRAkFUAJ9Rve3KQ4HqaBL/YW5IODMaQG5WogCfYkWH WBCcDUs7j0OqSwATwxktzeM= =z5iu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Fri Nov 14 06:59:03 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:59:03 -0500 Subject: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: <20031114010940.GA17348@uni.thekramers.net> References: <20031114010940.GA17348@uni.thekramers.net> Message-ID: <20031114065903.5c6139f0.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:09:40 -0500 David Kramer wrote: > For the first time, I've set up a separate /home partition that will > survive OS changes. I've always been in the "one big /" camp, but the > odds of me reinstalling was high. > > Oh. And do backups. Both of my systems have separate /home and /usr/local because I do upgrade releases (it was more frequently when I used to get the latest SUSE releases free). - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tMOH+wA+1cUGHqkRAhv7AJ9mtSH9NHHBlPuYt+f9b/+WyypjEQCdH1IA wKVYUYUU2E9wdC97VxKlkds= =pLEz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gaf at blu.org Fri Nov 14 07:54:54 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:54:54 -0500 Subject: Interesting message from SuSE's Richard Seibt on kde-core-devel Message-ID: <20031114075454.4fd8abe9.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here is the text of a message Richard Seibt posted on the KDE Core development newsgroup. Since Novell had acquired both Ximian and SUSE, there had been some speculation that it would no longer support KDE. http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=106855804831790&w=2 "Dear KDE developers, since I joined SUSE in January 2003, I learned that KDE is one of the most successful and fastest evolving open source projects. Since the first day I use it myself and I am thrilled with it. My personal thanks to all of you who contributed in the last seven years to KDE. KDE is the defacto standard for Linux desktops in Europe. Without KDE, I do not believe we would be seeing the interest in Linux on the corporate desktop that we are seeing today and on the consumer desktop as well. Please be clear: SUSE LINUX will continue to strongly support KDE". ..... - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tNCe+wA+1cUGHqkRAi6vAJ9f5vlYPH7iNtnqE4bH2RUIBcD3JACdHrzb hqpA8DGU8cVHIGPVFlGmk4I= =SZ5K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gboyce at badbelly.com Fri Nov 14 10:26:55 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Has anyone compiled the Enterprise version of Redhat? In-Reply-To: <002301c3a9f8$aff70190$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Bill Horne wrote: > TWIMC, > > If you or someone you know is using a version of Redhat Enterprise Linux > that you compiled from the sources, please let me know. Bill, I've been looking into the same thing myself, and I've run into some disturbing information. It appears that RHEL 3.0 isn't designed to be self-hosting. I had been planning on building the core packages from another distro (Fedora maybe), and then once I install those core packages, rebuilding everything (including the core packages) from within itself. According to this e-mail, it's not possible: http://www.mail-archive.com/rhel-rebuild-l at uibk.ac.at/msg00070.html Maybe RHEL 2.1 can build RHEL 3.0. -- Greg From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Fri Nov 14 10:59:35 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:59:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Well, found it. (Re: Can't get a gnome session? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=pan.2003.11.12.20.03.21.477474%40coolname.net&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dredhat%2Bunable%2Bto%2Bjoin%2Benvironment%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg Apparently the lastest update to glibc breaks posix-threads for any "non-redhat" kernels. Oy vey is mer. I have the .7 versions that came out today, but since my RPM binaries do not work (they all report "unable to join environment") I'm a bit stuck about what to do. Sorry if this whole topic was covered in the fedora thread. I grepped for it via the archives but couldn't find it, at least not using "thread" which I thought was unique to the problem. Duane Fri, 14 Nov 2003 gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > The glib package, not the glibc package. > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Duane Morin wrote: > > > Where goes the libgthread stuff live -- glibc? I don't mind digging in > > and looking at this gthread-posix.c file to see what the story is, but I'm > > stabbing in the dark at where I can find that (I only have lynx to work > > with right now). > > > > I pulled down glibc-2.3.2 but didn't find that file. > > > > Duane > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 07:31:24PM -0500, Duane Morin wrote: > > > > Ok, this isn't cool. I've been running Redhat 9 with Ximian happily for > > > > weeks now, periodically getting the software updates that are recommended. > > > > Today all of a sudden java stopped working, throwing vm errors. > > > > I reboot...and now I can't even get a gnome session. As in, I log in > > > > and gnome tells me "Your session lasted less than 10 seconds. Use a > > > > failsafe session and see if you can fix the problem." So I'm in a > > > > failsafe session now and ssh'd into my mail machine to send a help > > > > message :). > > > > > > > > Here's the message I get now if I try to run red-carpet, for instance, to > > > > get fresh updates: > > > > > > > > GThread-ERROR **: file gthread-posix.c: line 135 (): error 'No such > > > > process' during 'pthread_getschedparam (pthread_self(), &policy, &sched)' > > > > aborting... > > > > > > I'd say 80% or higher chance this is caused by the new threads stuff that's > > > being discussed on this list the past few days. > > > > > > Not that this information helps you directly. Sorry. > > > > > > > I am getting very bad flashbacks. A red-carpet crash that cost me my > > > > home directory on a past machine is what caused me to give up on Redhat > > > > and switch to Mandrake originally, and I've only recently come back > > > > to Redhat 9. > > > > > > For the first time, I've set up a separate /home partition that will survive > > > OS changes. I've always been in the "one big /" camp, but the odds of > > > me reinstalling was high. > > > > > > Oh. And do backups. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net > > > DK KD > > > DKK D One nation, under Canada.... > > > DK KD Robin Williams > > > DDDD > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > Discuss at blu.org > > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at blu.org > > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > From shark at ll.mit.edu Fri Nov 14 11:36:45 2003 From: shark at ll.mit.edu (Gregory Gimler) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:36:45 -0500 Subject: How to find 3 OS parameters In-Reply-To: <20031112142128.GA20298@javalinux.net> References: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031114113253.01c07468@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Hello, Is there a generic way of finding out certain system attributes for a linux OS: 1) number of processes 2) number of threads 3) number of simultaneous open files I'd like to find these values on modern versions(>7) of Suse and on Redhat. I'm running into limitations on some DBMS benchmarks. -Greg From nullpointer at pobox.com Fri Nov 14 13:22:51 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:22:51 -0500 Subject: How to find 3 OS parameters In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031114113253.01c07468@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> References: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031114113253.01c07468@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Message-ID: <200311141322.54228.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 14 November 2003 11:36, Gregory Gimler wrote: > 1) number of processes # Check the man page; I think -ef gets _all_ processes ps -ef | wc -l > 2) number of threads No idea, but if you can grok /proc/$PROCESS_NUMBER/stat, then you're in business. > 3) number of simultaneous open files # You can throw some switches at lsof if you only want, say, data files # on a userland disk partition lsof | wc -l -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tR1+sIjNiQTGkXARAsgWAJ9EBUp4hHpDZxw82fodizIxWJJdOwCgx4Ov HzuCeJL9V7ohHuTnjwZ7xeI= =tntP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mattg at timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com Fri Nov 14 14:39:18 2003 From: mattg at timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com (Matt Galster) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:39:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: How to find 3 OS parameters In-Reply-To: <200311141322.54228.nullpointer@pobox.com> from "Dan Barrett" at Nov 14, 2003 01:22:51 PM Message-ID: <200311141939.hAEJdIR13274@timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com> I interpreted his question as the maximum number possible, not how many are extant. MEG "--- begin copied/edited message from Dan Barrett ---" > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Friday 14 November 2003 11:36, Gregory Gimler wrote: > > 1) number of processes > > # Check the man page; I think -ef gets _all_ processes > ps -ef | wc -l > > > > 2) number of threads > > No idea, but if you can grok /proc/$PROCESS_NUMBER/stat, then you're in > business. > > > > 3) number of simultaneous open files > > # You can throw some switches at lsof if you only want, say, data files > # on a userland disk partition > lsof | wc -l > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE/tR1+sIjNiQTGkXARAsgWAJ9EBUp4hHpDZxw82fodizIxWJJdOwCgx4Ov > HzuCeJL9V7ohHuTnjwZ7xeI= > =tntP > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com Fri Nov 14 15:11:20 2003 From: dmorin at lear.morinfamily.com (Duane Morin) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:11:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fixed, yet broken Message-ID: Got my hands on glibc- blah blah .7 rpm, which supposedly fixed my problem. export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 allowed me to run rpm again (who knew?!) So now I'm back in bidniz, can run gnome. Huzzah. Interesting side effetc -- when I go into System Update (Ximian), it tells me that the only packages I have installed are glibc and glic-common. When I asked it to verify dependencies it added basesystem and a couple of others. But it's obviously lost track of everything on my system. Anybody got a good way to tell ximian to go through and look at everything I already have? Or is that info gone, ya think? I tried telling it to install glibc-devel (which it lists under "available packages") but when I did it gave me a good 50 dependencies and I didn't want to get into too much modification if I dont have to. Duane From gaf at blu.org Fri Nov 14 14:59:10 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:59:10 -0500 Subject: How to find 3 OS parameters In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031114113253.01c07468@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> References: <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> <20031112083529.6eeaaf36.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031114113253.01c07468@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20031114145910.400e5c8a.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:36:45 -0500 Gregory Gimler wrote: > Hello, > > Is there a generic way of finding out certain system attributes for a > linux OS: 1) number of processes > 2) number of threads > 3) number of simultaneous open files > > I'd like to find these values on modern versions(>7) of Suse and on > Redhat. I'm running into limitations on > some DBMS benchmarks. The ulimit command will give you some of the information. The getrlimit(2) and setrlimit(2) system calls also provide a way to get at these, except the threads. The max number of threads is usually set in the kernel. Some Unix systems allow this to be a configurable limit without rebuilding the kernel, but I believe that on Linux you must change PTHREAD_THREADS_MAX in the header file and rebuild the kernel. I could be wrong on this since I have not changed that parameter on Linux for a few years. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tTQO+wA+1cUGHqkRAn7UAJ9q0Klx8A/zdkn6Zs+B5HznxWbDPwCdG2bS yWOqMEv0ibvgx+n5Ro0Ocbg= =Rwu/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nullpointer at pobox.com Fri Nov 14 15:43:17 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:43:17 -0500 Subject: How to find 3 OS parameters In-Reply-To: <200311141939.hAEJdIR13274@timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com> References: <200311141939.hAEJdIR13274@timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <200311141543.17309.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 14 November 2003 14:39, Matt Galster wrote: > I interpreted his question as the maximum number possible, not how many are extant. In that case, these files will tell you: /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max /proc/sys/fs/file-max The Sys V stuff you'll need to change for Oracle (semaphore limits, etc.) are also in /proc/sys/kernel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tT5lsIjNiQTGkXARAmghAKCFjL20i9S6amMeQdTW/5LgtQdk7ACeLtxa LRwwPRcBAWMnY6pvS32aKCU= =vdfF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gboyce at badbelly.com Fri Nov 14 17:08:09 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:08:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fixed, yet broken In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Duane Morin wrote: > Interesting side effetc -- when I go into System Update (Ximian), it > tells me that the only packages I have installed are glibc and > glic-common. When I asked it to verify dependencies it added basesystem > and a couple of others. But it's obviously lost track of everything on > my system. > > Anybody got a good way to tell ximian to go through and look at > everything I already have? Or is that info gone, ya think? I'm not sure, but I think this might be an RPM problem rather than a Ximian one. If you do an rpm -qa, does it list a large number of packages, or just the same ones as Ximian? If it's just the same few, try running "rpm --rebuilddb" -- Greg From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Fri Nov 14 18:44:27 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:44:27 -0500 Subject: Another response to Red Hat's Enterprise Linux move Message-ID: <200311141844.27393.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> > Here's another response, all the way from Tyngsboro, to Red Hat's > move away from free distributions: > > http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,61166,00.html > > Nathan The most important part of this notice is that it's a huge boost for Debian!! From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Fri Nov 14 18:51:16 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:51:16 -0500 Subject: Fool.com: Red Hat Is Red Hot [Commentary] November 13, 2003 Message-ID: <200311141851.16005.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> A market analysis of RedHat: http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2003/commentary031113jf.htm?source=mppromo From gaf at blu.org Sat Nov 15 09:25:35 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:25:35 -0500 Subject: Boston Linux Meeting Wednesday, November 19, 2003 beowulf Clusters Message-ID: <20031115092535.754f5878.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 When: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:00 PM (6:30 for general Q&A) Topic: Beowulf Update Location: MIT Building 4-370 Presented by: Kurt Keville and Kevin Gleason Kurt and Kevin will present the current state of Beowulf Clusters. In addition, Kevin has been working on a beowulf cluster at Mt. Ida on a shoestring budget. For additional info, parking and directions please check the BLU website: http://www.blu.org - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/tjdf+wA+1cUGHqkRAuMTAJ91EpVDOjhc/Q+/fPQYiM1+YDbarQCcCDj5 0dO3p+bG5VT+Xx3jUgTqNKE= =LKA/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gboyce at badbelly.com Sat Nov 15 09:54:54 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (Gregory Boyce) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:54:54 -0500 Subject: Redhat 9 temp work Message-ID: <1068908094.8870.1.camel@necronomicon.badbelly.com> Folks, I just came across this listing for a short term contract job to rebuild two linux servers. It looks like they're in a bad situation, so I would guess that the pay is probably pretty good. http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=19868097 -- Gregory Boyce From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu Sat Nov 15 10:26:55 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:26:55 -0500 Subject: How to set up a computers with GNU/Linux for grandparents Message-ID: a. For grandparents, how do you set up a computer with GNU/Linux ?... b. How do you set up computers with GNU/Linux for elderly seniors?... . From gboyce at badbelly.com Sat Nov 15 10:52:38 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (Gregory Boyce) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:52:38 -0500 Subject: How to set up a computers with GNU/Linux for grandparents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1068911557.8870.16.camel@necronomicon.badbelly.com> On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 10:26, Don Saklad wrote: > a. For grandparents, how do you set up a computer with GNU/Linux ?... > b. How do you set up computers with GNU/Linux for elderly seniors?... Computers for what? It depends a lot on what their use will be. Mostly web browsing? Mostly e-mail? Or will they be doing their finances on the machine or anything like that? Unless they're computer savy, I would suggest limiting choices as much as possible. If they only read e-mail and browse the web, then only have those two programs available. Install a single easy to use e-mail client, and a single easy to use web browser. Load any common (and safe) plugins in advance. Flash, java, etc. Their usage is quite common these days, and the missing plugins will end up causing confusion. Any programs that won't be used, uninstall or at least remove the icons/menu entries for them. Configure the window manager so that nothing can easily be accidentally changed. I don't even know how many times I've recieved phonecalls from relates running windows who accidentally moved the task bar or something else trivial like that. Fixing it is simple, but it's not an easy thing to explain over the phone to someone who isn't computer literate. I would suggest using KDE or Gnome rather than something like Windowmaker/Afterstep/Enlightenment. It's a bit more similiar to something that they've seen before (assuming they've used computers.. I don't think my grandparents have), and they both have built in support for easy access. Large fonts/high contrast for people who vision problems. Sticky keys for complex keyboard combinations. That sort of thing. You might want to look into KDE's kiosk mode. It's designed so that you cannot change any of the options. I haven't used it personally, but I read up on it a little when the feature was first introduced, and it looks convenient for it's purposes. If you decide to go with Gnome, newer versions offer the ability to lock applets in place on the menu bar. It would probably be a good idea to use that. As for distros, it doesn't need to be bleeding edge. Stability is important. I wouldn't suggest Fedora Core at all at this point as I've had a number of random crashing issues. I can deal with them, but seniors may not be able to. -- Gregory Boyce From mark_glassberg at valley.net Sat Nov 15 16:14:33 2003 From: mark_glassberg at valley.net (Mark Glassberg) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:14:33 -0500 Subject: Boston Linux Meeting Wednesday, November 19, 2003 beowulf Clusters Message-ID: <20031115211433.GB121@swb1.valley.net> On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 09:25:35AM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > When: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:00 PM (6:30 for general Q&A) > Topic: Beowulf Update > Location: MIT Building 4-370 > Presented by: Kurt Keville and Kevin Gleason > Kurt and Kevin will present the current state of Beowulf Clusters. In > addition, Kevin has been working on a beowulf cluster at Mt. Ida on a > shoestring budget. If you know of anyone interested in experimenting with large numbers of older pc's and/or macs, have them contact Wincycle. Email: jeremiah at wincycle.org Wincycle refurbishes and seeks to find a home for these machines, many of which are available at nominal cost. From william_holt at speakeasy.net Sat Nov 15 18:48:50 2003 From: william_holt at speakeasy.net (Bill Holt) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:48:50 +0000 Subject: How to set up a computers with GNU/Linux for grandparents Message-ID: Maybe they are using clusters in order to crunch lottery numbers? From pri.blu at iadonisi.to Mon Nov 17 05:04:35 2003 From: pri.blu at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:04:35 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <1069063475.11584.1.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 20:17, Bill Horne wrote: > TWIMC, > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > server. > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22White%20Box%20Enterprise%20Linux%22 -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From gboyce at badbelly.com Mon Nov 17 06:23:30 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (Gregory Boyce) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:23:30 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <1069063475.11584.1.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> <1069063475.11584.1.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1069068210.8134.2.camel@necronomicon.badbelly.com> On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 05:04, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 20:17, Bill Horne wrote: > > TWIMC, > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > > server. > > > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22White%20Box%20Enterprise%20Linux%22 Well, that changes my plans for the day. Now I get a new distro to play with today rather than spending the day rebuilding RHEL packages. Now to see if his work fits what I'm looking for. At the very least, this proves it can be done, and gives some pointers. Thanks! -- Gregory Boyce From adler at bnl.gov Mon Nov 17 09:28:07 2003 From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:28:07 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <1069068210.8134.2.camel@necronomicon.badbelly.com> References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> <1069063475.11584.1.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1069068210.8134.2.camel@necronomicon.badbelly.com> Message-ID: <1069079287.8560.11.camel@pcp04399725pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net> For all those who are looking at other distros, I do suggest you give Fedora Core 1 a shot. It was the cleanest installation of red hat yet (opppsss fedora..) and it really does run faster than red hat 9. (i.e. my windows pop up quicker, its just a snappier environment.) The real issue for me are the updates which Red Hat announced through their red hat network system. up2date seems to work from a fedora.redhatsomething.com but I don't have that fuzzy feeling anymore that I can just wait for my red hat network alert icon in my gnome panel to turn red when there is a critical update waiting to be downloaded and rpm-installed on my system. Does anyone know or have some comments on how Fedora users are supposed to deal with the updates? I've heard stuff about yum, but I'm not familiar with it. Cheers. Steve. On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 06:23, Gregory Boyce wrote: > On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 05:04, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > > On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 20:17, Bill Horne wrote: > > > TWIMC, > > > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > > > > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > > > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > > > server. > > > > > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22White%20Box%20Enterprise%20Linux%22 > > Well, that changes my plans for the day. Now I get a new distro to play > with today rather than spending the day rebuilding RHEL packages. > > Now to see if his work fits what I'm looking for. At the very least, > this proves it can be done, and gives some pointers. > > Thanks! -- Stephen Adler From gboyce at badbelly.com Mon Nov 17 09:41:08 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:41:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <1069079287.8560.11.camel@pcp04399725pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: > Does anyone know or have some comments on how Fedora users are > supposed to deal with the updates? I've heard stuff about yum, > but I'm not familiar with it. "yum update" should in theory be the method I believe. I know that for a while I was using yum install to install new packages. The past few days, it stopped working though with a 404 error. It appears they moved the repository. They havent' released a new yum package with the new path built in either, and I haven't spent enough time figuring out the appropriate path to change it to. -- Greg From 235u at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 10:31:30 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:31:30 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB8E9D2.3020905@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi, i haven't done it myself yet but i got this info in an email and thought it may be of assistance concerning fedora updates. eric. "Just in case people haven't bottomed out all the threads in which this is mentioned, the Fedora Core 1 yum (+ up2date) repositories shipped with FC1 are not working. This is most likely due to a web server misconfiguration on fedora.redhat.com. So you will get "File not found" errors when using the RHN applet, up2date, and/or yum. You can do one of two things: 1) EASIEST: wait until the problem is fixed (see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=110194). You can do this if you don't want to install any new software in the next 24 hours (or however long it takes to fix the problem). YOu can ignore any errors. 2) SLIGHTLY HARDER: change your /etc/yum.conf and /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources.list to these two files temporarily: http://www.xades.com/proj/yum.conf.bugfix http://www.xades.com/proj/sources.bugfix Of course, you can also perform substitutions by hand to your /etc/yum.conf and sources.list files; check out the above two links for examples." gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: | On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: | | |>Does anyone know or have some comments on how Fedora users are |>supposed to deal with the updates? I've heard stuff about yum, |>but I'm not familiar with it. | | | "yum update" should in theory be the method I believe. I know that for a | while I was using yum install to install new packages. | | The past few days, it stopped working though with a 404 error. It appears | they moved the repository. They havent' released a new yum package with | the new path built in either, and I haven't spent enough time figuring out | the appropriate path to change it to. - -- loki_the_doppelganger http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/uOnSMb0VvwEIaEsRAkC9AJ9/9eOgr1PVKI8gMsDpYQCpr7NEVgCfaGnW 903YqvzpGefoLRi7offH6Yw= =T118 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 17 11:13:56 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:13:56 -0500 Subject: Adaptec U160 tuning Message-ID: <200311171113.56636.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Folks, I'm running a SCSI rig with one of the Adaptec U160 cards -- uses the aic7xxx driver, I think (I'm at work; the box is at home). Each device is running at half its possible speed, though: my 80MB/sec drives all show up in boot logs as being initialized at 40MB/sec; even my CD-R is initializing at a transfer rate of 10MB/sec. I've got the correct cabling and everything works great, I'd just like to wring every ounce of speed out of these drives. Best, d. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/uPPEsIjNiQTGkXARAg0TAJwMoVa3owHUZriY7AwmqtdO2dkMkwCfR4X9 8q61onBmzV1Jirg4m3LoTbc= =EwL0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From adler at bnl.gov Mon Nov 17 11:47:02 2003 From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:02 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <3FB8E9D2.3020905@comcast.net> References: <3FB8E9D2.3020905@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1069087622.8560.55.camel@pcp04399725pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net> I've been investigating this update issue and have a couple of comments. 1) yum does not seem to be installed on my system. My system basically has been a rolling upgrade of red hat for the past 3 years. My last os upgrade was from red hat 9 to fedora core 1. So unless I have to install yum as a separate rpm, then either fedora core 1 does not come with yum, or the upgrade from red hat 9 to fedora core 1 left out yum. So for now I'll just ignore yum, although I should understand why I don't have yum on my system. 2) As for up2date, I think the e-mail is a bit missleading since /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources.list does not exist on my system either. There does exist the file /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources (i.e. no .list in the file name). After modifying that by adding the lines yum fedora-core-1 http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i386/os yum updates-released http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/1/i386 yum mozilla-yum-site http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/yum/SeaMonkey/releases/1.5/redhat/0.95 and commenting out all the other yum entries, I was able to bring my system up to date and also install the latest version of Mozilla (1.5). The Mozilla rpm packages were not pgp signed which is of course bad news and I could have just downloaded a trojaned version of mozilla. (oh well...) I hope this info helps others out there. Cheers. Steve. P.S. Several times, up2date crashed while doing the updates, but from reading the trash dumps, it looks like up2date does not handle http errors properly. Restarting up2date and continuing from where it left off, I'm able to get all the packages updated and installed. So if up2date crashes, just hit the up arrow and try again. That seems to work. (Not a good thing tho...) On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 10:31, eric wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > hi, i haven't done it myself yet but i got this info in an email and > thought it may be of assistance concerning fedora updates. eric. > > "Just in case people haven't bottomed out all the threads in which this > is mentioned, the Fedora Core 1 yum (+ up2date) repositories shipped > with FC1 are not working. This is most likely due to a web server > misconfiguration on fedora.redhat.com. > > So you will get "File not found" errors when using the RHN applet, > up2date, and/or yum. You can do one of two things: > > 1) EASIEST: wait until the problem is fixed (see > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=110194). You can > do this if you don't want to install any new software in the next 24 > hours (or however long it takes to fix the problem). YOu can ignore any > errors. > > 2) SLIGHTLY HARDER: change your /etc/yum.conf and > /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources.list to these two files temporarily: > > http://www.xades.com/proj/yum.conf.bugfix > http://www.xades.com/proj/sources.bugfix > > Of course, you can also perform substitutions by hand to your > /etc/yum.conf and sources.list files; check out the above two links for > examples." > > gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > | On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: > | > | > |>Does anyone know or have some comments on how Fedora users are > |>supposed to deal with the updates? I've heard stuff about yum, > |>but I'm not familiar with it. > | > | > | "yum update" should in theory be the method I believe. I know that for a > | while I was using yum install to install new packages. > | > | The past few days, it stopped working though with a 404 error. It > appears > | they moved the repository. They havent' released a new yum package with > | the new path built in either, and I haven't spent enough time figuring > out > | the appropriate path to change it to. > > > - -- > loki_the_doppelganger > http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/uOnSMb0VvwEIaEsRAkC9AJ9/9eOgr1PVKI8gMsDpYQCpr7NEVgCfaGnW > 903YqvzpGefoLRi7offH6Yw= > =T118 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Stephen Adler From gaf at blu.org Mon Nov 17 12:19:58 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:19:58 -0500 Subject: Job Opportunity - Technical Support Engineer Message-ID: <20031117121958.6dafb380.gaf@blu.org> In the past, we refrained from using the discuss list for job postings, but in light of the economy and the number of unemployed in our ranks. Begin forwarded message: Contact: "John Walter" Technical Support Engineer: Position Overview: The primary role of the Technical Support Engineer position is to support our customers, partners, channels and account teams with any technical issues related to our products. The Technical Support Engineer will work with our customers to implement appropriate corrective actions and to perform testing in our lab when necessary. The Technical Support Engineer will be responsible to ensure that all issues are resolved or escalated in a timely manner. We are looking for a top performer, who acts professionally at all times and is effective at providing technical support over the phone, via email and on site. Additional responsibilities may include interacting with product management and helping to improve internal processes. Summary of Responsibilities: Provide Post Sales Technical Support via phone, email and web to customers, partners, channels and sales teams. Investigate and resolve incoming issues in a timely and effective manner. Assist in the creation of technical documentation (Support Bulletins, FAQ's, white papers). Work within company to constantly improve processes and to ensure support organization has the necessary resources. Document all contact activity, including troubleshooting steps and problem resolution. Requirements: BS CS/EE or related technical experience preferred. Minimum 5-7 years as a Technical Support Engineer (or comparable position) with demonstrated success supporting complex products/solutions for Resellers, Partners, OEMs and large enterprises. Background in the following areas: Linux, Clustered/Grid computing, SAN storage, IP Networking, 3 Tier architectures. A mentality and style that encourages accountability, integrity, tangible results, a commitment to quality and to providing exceptional customer service while multi- tasking in a fast paced, interrupt driven environment. Must work effectively as part of a team, but be able to exercise independent judgment within defined procedures and practices. Must be able to manage priorities and be able to adapt to changing work requirements. Must be able to work in high-stress situations without sacrificing professionalism, customer service or level of detail. Additional Pluses: Certifications with various Linux platforms (RedHat, SuSE, etc.), Relational Database Platforms (DB2, Oracle, etc.), and Application Servers (WebSphere, Oracle Applications Server, etc.). Experience with clustered computing environments including MPI. If you have any questions regarding this please feel free to contact me. Respectfully, John. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 From mattg at timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com Mon Nov 17 12:34:51 2003 From: mattg at timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com (Matt Galster) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:34:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <1069079287.8560.11.camel@pcp04399725pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net> from "Stephen Adler" at Nov 17, 2003 09:28:07 AM Message-ID: <200311171734.hAHHYpc25146@timesucker.ne.client2.attbi.com> I don't really care how snappy it is, if the support life for that install is measured in months instead of years. A fresh install for a new box is no big deal. Pick what makes sense to you. Upgrading a machine in service is painful indeed. This makes me think all the harder when picking out a distribution to use. Check out the reason the group that compiled RHEL into White Box did so. My thoughts are similar to those of the management of that library. MEG "--- begin copied/edited message from Stephen Adler ---" > > For all those who are looking at other distros, I do suggest > you give Fedora Core 1 a shot. It was the cleanest installation > of red hat yet (opppsss fedora..) and it really does run faster > than red hat 9. (i.e. my windows pop up quicker, its just a > snappier environment.) > > The real issue for me are the updates which Red Hat announced > through their red hat network system. up2date seems to work > from a fedora.redhatsomething.com but I don't have that fuzzy > feeling anymore that I can just wait for my red hat network > alert icon in my gnome panel to turn red when there is a critical > update waiting to be downloaded and rpm-installed on my system. > > Does anyone know or have some comments on how Fedora users are > supposed to deal with the updates? I've heard stuff about yum, > but I'm not familiar with it. > > Cheers. Steve. > > On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 06:23, Gregory Boyce wrote: > > On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 05:04, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > > > On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 20:17, Bill Horne wrote: > > > > TWIMC, > > > > > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. > > > > > > > > I don't approve of RedHat putting Linux into a proprietary model, but > > > > the company has honored the GPL, and has put the source code on its FTP > > > > server. > > > > > > > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > > > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22White%20Box%20Enterprise%20Linux%22 > > > > Well, that changes my plans for the day. Now I get a new distro to play > > with today rather than spending the day rebuilding RHEL packages. > > > > Now to see if his work fits what I'm looking for. At the very least, > > this proves it can be done, and gives some pointers. > > > > Thanks! > -- > Stephen Adler > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > From jack at coats.org Mon Nov 17 12:56:58 2003 From: jack at coats.org (Jack Coats) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:56:58 -0600 Subject: Adaptec U160 tuning In-Reply-To: <200311171113.56636.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: when you reboot, check the bios. This card is 'settable' by device (SCSI target) as to the expected transfer rate. I ran into this when putting an IBM 3583 on, and the transfer rate for the LTO defaulted to 160, and it should have been 80. Changing the rate made things seem to work right where they did not before. -----Original Message----- From: discuss-admin at blu.org [mailto:discuss-admin at blu.org]On Behalf Of Dan Barrett Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:14 AM To: discuss at blu.org Subject: Adaptec U160 tuning -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Folks, I'm running a SCSI rig with one of the Adaptec U160 cards -- uses the aic7xxx driver, I think (I'm at work; the box is at home). Each device is running at half its possible speed, though: my 80MB/sec drives all show up in boot logs as being initialized at 40MB/sec; even my CD-R is initializing at a transfer rate of 10MB/sec. I've got the correct cabling and everything works great, I'd just like to wring every ounce of speed out of these drives. Best, d. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/uPPEsIjNiQTGkXARAg0TAJwMoVa3owHUZriY7AwmqtdO2dkMkwCfR4X9 8q61onBmzV1Jirg4m3LoTbc= =EwL0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at blu.org http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From gboyce at badbelly.com Mon Nov 17 13:00:16 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:00:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <1069087622.8560.55.camel@pcp04399725pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: > 1) yum does not seem to be installed on my system. My system > basically has been a rolling upgrade of red hat for the past > 3 years. My last os upgrade was from red hat 9 to fedora core > 1. So unless I have to install yum as a separate rpm, then > either fedora core 1 does not come with yum, or the upgrade > from red hat 9 to fedora core 1 left out yum. So for now > I'll just ignore yum, although I should understand why I > don't have yum on my system. A fresh workstation install added yum for me. An upgrade did not. That's probably why you don't have it. From richb at pioneer.ci.net Mon Nov 17 14:23:27 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:23:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? Message-ID: <7140.66.31.42.38.1069097007.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> My nice new mail server's been running stable for months. Yesterday my Squirrelmail config hit a major speed bump: most queries to Apache (be it within Squirrelmail or otherwise, but I don't use my web server for much of anything but mail) don't respond until about 20 or 30 seconds later. I tried rebooting and restarting various apps. The only thing which seemed to help is disabling HostnameLookup in the httpd.conf file. But I can't seem to identify any other symptom, manual 'dig' queries work just fine. And the problem occurred whether or not I point resolv.conf to Comcast's servers or to my own. It's a mystery to me--nothing changed on my system until I rebooted at 67 days' uptime after the problem started to appear--and I'm just checking to see if anyone else has noticed a problem with Apache 1.3.27 servers suddenly acting up starting 24 hours ago. -rich From david at thekramers.net Mon Nov 17 14:50:53 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:50:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Adaptec U160 tuning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jack Coats wrote: > when you reboot, check the bios. This card is 'settable' by device (SCSI > target) as to the expected transfer rate. I ran into this when putting an > IBM 3583 on, and the transfer rate for the LTO defaulted to 160, and it > should > have been 80. Changing the rate made things seem to work right where they > did not before. I think there's a prompt to bring up a menu with Control-A on most Adaptec cards. You should be able to set it there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "The difference between playing the stock market and DK KD the horses is that one of the horses must win." DDDD -Joey Adams (1911) US comedian, author "Reader's Digest," 1 Aug. 1985. From bob at sinister.com Mon Nov 17 14:55:09 2003 From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:55:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? In-Reply-To: <7140.66.31.42.38.1069097007.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Rich Braun wrote: > My nice new mail server's been running stable for months. Yesterday my > Squirrelmail config hit a major speed bump: most queries to Apache (be it > within Squirrelmail or otherwise, but I don't use my web server for much of > anything but mail) don't respond until about 20 or 30 seconds later. > > I tried rebooting and restarting various apps. The only thing which seemed to > help is disabling HostnameLookup in the httpd.conf file. But I can't seem to > identify any other symptom, manual 'dig' queries work just fine. And the > problem occurred whether or not I point resolv.conf to Comcast's servers or to > my own. > > It's a mystery to me--nothing changed on my system until I rebooted at 67 > days' uptime after the problem started to appear--and I'm just checking to see > if anyone else has noticed a problem with Apache 1.3.27 servers suddenly > acting up starting 24 hours ago. How do other applications besides apache and dig work? telnet or ssh for instance? You should check your /etc/nsswitch.conf file. This determines the order in which methods of resolving names are used. If you have NIS in there then that could be a problem. From fjramsay1234 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 17 15:02:34 2003 From: fjramsay1234 at hotmail.com (Frank Ramsay) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:02:34 -0500 Subject: scripting "interactive" input Message-ID: Does anyone know of a site that has good info on writing scripts that run interactive programs? None of these programs are X based, so I am hoping I can use scripts to perform simple "send X expect Y" type tests. -fjr Frank J. Ramsay fjramsay1234 at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com From nullpointer at pobox.com Mon Nov 17 15:10:27 2003 From: nullpointer at pobox.com (Dan Barrett) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:10:27 -0500 Subject: scripting "interactive" input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311171510.31776.nullpointer@pobox.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 17 November 2003 15:02, Frank Ramsay wrote: > Does anyone know of a site that has good info on writing scripts that run > interactive programs? > None of these programs are X based, so I am hoping I can use scripts to > perform simple "send X > expect Y" type tests. expect is the right word -- there's a somewhat-standard TCL package called 'expect' that's installed by default on lots of boxes. If not, check it out at http://expect.nist.gov/ I've used it for a couple of pesky tasks in the past; works as advertised. Best, d. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/uSs3sIjNiQTGkXARAicPAJ9+yA4bjlcEMgyYuMUb/kALhpHlIACeOmyk rpja+zYCBc1VOJBSSrApZB0= =XTJM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Mon Nov 17 15:15:02 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:15:02 -0800 Subject: scripting "interactive" input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031117201502.GA27535@server.sunrise-linux.com> man expect -miah On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 03:02:34PM -0500, Frank Ramsay wrote: > Does anyone know of a site that has good info on writing scripts that run > interactive programs? > None of these programs are X based, so I am hoping I can use scripts to > perform simple "send X > expect Y" type tests. > > -fjr > > > Frank J. Ramsay > fjramsay1234 at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... > http://shopping.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From richb at pioneer.ci.net Mon Nov 17 15:33:06 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:33:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? In-Reply-To: References: <7140.66.31.42.38.1069097007.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: <7525.66.31.42.38.1069101186.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> > How do other applications besides apache and dig work? telnet or ssh for > instance? Haven't noticed a delay in sshd, not sure if it tries to do an inaddr lookup. But there is one other app which displays the symptom, now that you mention it: 'netstat -a'. It hangs when it tries to do the inaddr for my Comcast-assigned IP address. Ding! Thanks for helping me diagnose. Same delay occurs when I try to query that address from other servers. Something's wedged at Comcast, their inaddr service for my system (and probably everyone else in town) C is hosed. Maybe someday they'll fix it. ;-) Wonder how I'd even go about reporting this problem? Perhaps if some of y'all Comcast users would help me gang up on them. Try nslookup or dig of your own dynamic IP and see if it sits there hanging for 10+ seconds. At the moment, mine returns NXDOMAIN (as opposed to .client2.attbi.com like it used to) after a server timeout. > You should check your /etc/nsswitch.conf file. ... If you have NIS in > there then that could be a problem. Just files and dns. -rich From cdevers at pobox.com Mon Nov 17 15:33:35 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:33:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: scripting "interactive" input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Frank Ramsay wrote: > Does anyone know of a site that has good info on writing scripts that run > interactive programs? > None of these programs are X based, so I am hoping I can use scripts to > perform simple "send X > expect Y" type tests. Have you looked into curses? I believe you just pretty much summed up what it's designed to do -- automate work with interactive (screen-based) programs like Lymx, Pine, Emacs, etc. The other one I like is the `script` command. It basically acts as a proxy between the terminal and the shell or program you're running, logging all keyed activity for later use: the output is a file that you can play back to attempt to replicate everything you did through the `script` session. Sometimes the output file from `script` gathers more than you intended. For example, I made a typo on the word 'more' a few words back, so the `script` output from this mail session would have something like "mord^He". Likewise, if I use the arrow keys to move around the message as I'm typing it (I just inserted a paragraph break before 'Sometimes', for example) then that all gets recorded as well. As a result, the output will bring you to not just the final result, but all the little steps & mis-steps taken along the way. On the other hand, you can edit this file (preferably with an editor that won't clobber any non-printable-ascii data) to remove any extraneous steps, and if you're feeling clear on the concept of how everything is logged (it's not *too* confusing), you can manually type directly into the output file. See if your system has the command -- on OSX it ships at /usr/bin/script, but other systems may or may not include it. It's terribly useful if you've got it available -- the one thing that might possibly be a pain for your needs is the conditional "did the last step work?" testing that you hint at, but this can probably be done as well. Good luck :) -- Chris Devers cdevers at pobox.com http://devers.homeip.net:8080/blog/ np: 'The Chase (Film Dialogue)' by Bob and Doug McKenzie from 'Strange Brew soundtrack' From cdevers at pobox.com Mon Nov 17 15:37:35 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:37:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: scripting "interactive" input In-Reply-To: <200311171510.31776.nullpointer@pobox.com> References: <200311171510.31776.nullpointer@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Dan Barrett wrote: > expect is the right word Doh! My last mail suggested Curses, but I meant Expect (which can be used to script Curses based apps, hence the confusion). Oops. Give script a try too though, it's really nifty, and not as well known as it probably deserves to be. If you're comfortable with Macs, it's a bit like turning on "observe mode" for the AppleScript editor, or the mechanism for recording macros in programs like Photoshop -- that is, it's for high level, "you don't need to think, just act naturally" scripting. -- Chris Devers cdevers at pobox.com http://devers.homeip.net:8080/blog/ np: 'Ernie's Mom' by Bob and Doug McKenzie from 'Great White North' From bobleigh at twomeeps.com Mon Nov 17 15:59:10 2003 From: bobleigh at twomeeps.com (Bob Leigh) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:59:10 -0500 Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? In-Reply-To: <7525.66.31.42.38.1069101186.squirrel@envoy.ci.net>; from richb@pioneer.ci.net on Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 03:33:06PM -0500 Message-ID: <20031117155910.B32490@bloop.local> Rich Braun wrote: > Perhaps if some of y'all Comcast users would help me gang up on them. Try > nslookup or dig of your own dynamic IP and see if it sits there hanging for > 10+ seconds. At the moment, mine returns NXDOMAIN (as opposed to > .client2.attbi.com like it used to) after a server timeout. Nope, mine gives the usual h8000xxxxxxxx.ne.client2.attbi.com -- in 5ms if I believe dig. ;-) -- Bob Leigh bobleigh at twomeeps.com From junkforjerry at hotmail.com Mon Nov 17 16:11:35 2003 From: junkforjerry at hotmail.com (jerry miu) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:11:35 -0500 Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? References: <20031117155910.B32490@bloop.local> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Leigh" To: Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 3:59 PM Subject: Re: DNS went haywire yesterday? > Rich Braun wrote: > > Perhaps if some of y'all Comcast users would help me gang up on them. Try > > nslookup or dig of your own dynamic IP and see if it sits there hanging for > > 10+ seconds. At the moment, mine returns NXDOMAIN (as opposed to > > .client2.attbi.com like it used to) after a server timeout. > > Nope, mine gives the usual h8000xxxxxxxx.ne.client2.attbi.com -- in 5ms > if I believe dig. ;-) > > -- > Bob Leigh bobleigh at twomeeps.com > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > I get a connection timed out; no servers can be reached From wade at ll.mit.edu Mon Nov 17 16:26:19 2003 From: wade at ll.mit.edu (Patrick Wade) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:26:19 -0500 Subject: Dell Latitude D600 Redhat 9 Modem Message-ID: <200311172126.hAHLQH4P027077@ll.mit.edu> I am attempting to get the internal modem on the D600 to work. The modem is a Conexant D480MDC. I have tried the drivers from www.linuxant.com , which I understand are the only drivers because this is an HSF winmodem. If anyone has had any success it would be greatly appreciated. I am just starting to learn linux right now, so the simpler the instructions are the better. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.horne at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 15:29:59 2003 From: bill.horne at comcast.net (bill.horne) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:29:59 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux References: <001401c3a8ba$c4c8e730$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> <1069063475.11584.1.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <007f01c3ad49$92be0390$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Iadonisi" > On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 20:17, Bill Horne wrote: > > TWIMC, > > > > The "Industrial" version of RedHat, called "Enterprise Linux", is being > > distributed on a subscription basis for prices starting at $179/year. [snip] > > I suggest we (those of us agonizing over what to do when RH9 is dropped) > > compile the software and distribute it as a BLU linux varient. > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22White%20Box%20Enterprise%20Linux%22 Paul, Thanks: that's an excellent site. Some notes from the above page: "Red Hat DID NOT build RHEL3 from the published srpms. Period, end of story. They didn't even build taroon from it's source. Openssl's srpm does not build the same binaries as the ones supplied in taroon and it is the same srpm as the one in RHEL3. I'm porting in a copy from fedora which builds correctly. Plus the package set is not self sufficient to actually build itself, several additional srpms need to be tracked down. Intentional GPL violation or carelessness? I'm reporting, You decide." If true, 'tis pity, 'tis pity, 'tis true. IMNSHO, RH has abandoned those like me who advanced its brand and supported its entry into the corporate market place, and now that that brand is established, and even considered to be a proprietary product separate from Linux, well, some animals are more equal than others. Let me be the first to say it: this is sad. I've seen reports that RH is charging "onerous" per-seat licensing fees for "their" operating system, and I can't help but think they've stooped to using Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt to extract money from corporations that don't know any better. I withdraw my suggestion. With due credit to the Beauregard Parish Library, it's a faustian quest to try and build a distro where the GPL licensee doesn't obey the license. Since (as has already been posted) others with more knowledge than I are switched to Debian, I'm going to follow suit. Meet the nex boss: same as the old boss. Bill Horne From 235u at comcast.net Tue Nov 18 09:35:49 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:35:49 -0500 Subject: Sun's Java Desktop System Message-ID: <3FBA2E45.9040504@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi. we've been yapping quite a bit lately about various distros, anybody try out sun's linux "java" desktop? it's not officially out yet but maybe somebody got to play with it? http://wwws.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/index.html what about the claim to be the #1 desktop linux distro thanks to the china deal? http://www.linuxworld.com/story/37928.htm i'm no businessman, just like to play pc games, but doesn't it seem strange that redhat is taking a step back from the desktop when it seems a couple of others are making moves to get into the business desktop? the description of the java desktop and screen shot seems cool... i don't know if i trust sun... - -- loki_the_doppelganger http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/ui5FMb0VvwEIaEsRAgslAJ9aUtGVeXpdHD2HdWCXXzPPJkwW1ACdGYW+ g0/OxH49ebmtJLsdszXSzBI= =7Xz6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nmeyers at javalinux.net Tue Nov 18 09:42:29 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:42:29 -0500 Subject: Sun's Java Desktop System In-Reply-To: <3FBA2E45.9040504@comcast.net> References: <3FBA2E45.9040504@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031118144229.GA2542@javalinux.net> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 09:35:49AM -0500, eric wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > hi. we've been yapping quite a bit lately about various distros, > anybody try out sun's linux "java" desktop? it's not officially out yet > but maybe somebody got to play with it? > http://wwws.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/index.html > what about the claim to be the #1 desktop linux distro thanks to the > china deal? http://www.linuxworld.com/story/37928.htm > i'm no businessman, just like to play pc games, but doesn't it seem > strange that redhat is taking a step back from the desktop when it seems > a couple of others are making moves to get into the business desktop? > the description of the java desktop and screen shot seems cool... i > don't know if i trust sun... Sun seems to be trying with "Java" what Microsoft tried (and abandoned) with ".NET" - slapping the brand on everything they touch. Now, I'm a Java guy and happy to see a system in which Java is an important component... but putting the label on a Linux distro is kinda silly. Nathan From gboyce at badbelly.com Tue Nov 18 12:57:23 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:57:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <007f01c3ad49$92be0390$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, bill.horne wrote: > Let me be the first to say it: this is sad. I've seen reports that RH is > charging "onerous" per-seat licensing fees for "their" operating system, > and I can't help but think they've stooped to using Fear, Uncertainty, > and Doubt to extract money from corporations that don't know any better. > > I withdraw my suggestion. With due credit to the Beauregard Parish > Library, it's a faustian quest to try and build a distro where the GPL > licensee doesn't obey the license. Since (as has already been posted) > others with more knowledge than I are switched to Debian, I'm going to > follow suit. If you object to what Redhat is doing, you can always make it harder for them. I think that less people would willing to pay the enterprise version pricing if a freely available version of it was available. White Box (or another rebuild of RHEL) gives back an option to people who prefer to use Redhat, but need long term support and cannot afford the prices that redhat is offering. Until I find another distribution that provides a nice easy method of network installing like kickstart, I think White Box is going to work out great for me. -- Greg From bill at billhorne.homelinux.org Tue Nov 18 14:34:49 2003 From: bill at billhorne.homelinux.org (Bill Horne) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:34:49 -0500 Subject: RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: ; from gboyce@badbelly.com on Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 12:57:23PM -0500 References: <007f01c3ad49$92be0390$0200a8c0@billhorne.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20031118143449.A23053@billhorne.homelinux.org> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 12:57:23PM -0500, gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, bill.horne wrote: > > > Let me be the first to say it: this is sad. [snip] > > > > I withdraw my suggestion. With due credit to the Beauregard Parish > > Library, it's a faustian quest to try and build a distro where the GPL > > licensee doesn't obey the license. [snip] > > If you object to what Redhat is doing, you can always make it harder for > them. I think that less people would willing to pay the enterprise > version pricing if a freely available version of it was available. > > White Box (or another rebuild of RHEL) gives back an option to people who > prefer to use Redhat, but need long term support and cannot afford the > prices that redhat is offering. > > Until I find another distribution that provides a nice easy method of > network installing like kickstart, I think White Box is going to work out > great for me. I object to being taken for a sucker: the "world domination" campaigns, the played-like-a-cheap-organ appeals to anti-M$ sentiment, the oh-so-convincing explanations of the need for "backporting", and the betrayal all come out like a morality play that everyone knows the ending to except the actors. I didn't think it was possible, and that's what pinches. White Box won't give anyone any options other than some encouragement to crash a party where they're not welcome: as a practical matter, corporate purchasing will write the checks no matter what a techie might say about "GPL". The scam fits perfectly into what every IT manager is used to doing, and it will succeed for that reason. After all, dispensing immense sums of money and pretending that they know what's going on is what they do, and that's what RH is counting on: inertia, hubris, and a wink-wink-we-knew-it-all-along arrogance that will accept anyone who is as venal as Redmond. After all, better the scoundrel we know than the idealist we could never be, n'est-ce-pas? I'm not David. They're not Goliath. I have other battles to fight, and must ration my time. If you choose to help Whitebox, that's your karma, and I wish you well: I'll be following Perens et al and keeping a weather eye out for the next big thing I should avoid. Bill, "Older and Wiser" Horne From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu Wed Nov 19 08:17:39 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:17:39 -0500 Subject: http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 Message-ID: http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 From mattg at theworld.com Wed Nov 19 08:57:39 2003 From: mattg at theworld.com (matt galster) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:57:39 -0500 Subject: http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007401c3aea5$18d672d0$200a0a0a@obsidion> This doesn't help most PC purchasers to get out from under the license fee component of their purchase. Clipped from that web page: Quote Not eligible for refund through the North American Retail Product Returns * Product preloaded on a personal PC (contact the PC manufacturer) unquote MEG > -----Original Message----- > From: discuss-admin at blu.org [mailto:discuss-admin at blu.org]On Behalf Of > Don Saklad > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:18 AM > To: discuss at blu.org > Subject: > http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 > > > http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm?SD=GN&LN=EN-US&gssnb=1 > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From adler at bnl.gov Wed Nov 19 14:24:14 2003 From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:24:14 -0500 Subject: messed up signatures in fedora updates Message-ID: <1069269041.22158.23.camel@adler.photodetection.com> Guys, I've gotten a couple of errors when running up2date in trying to update my fedora core. The message is that the pgp (or gpg) signatures are messed up. Anyone know anything about this? Thanks, Steve. From gaf at blu.org Wed Nov 19 16:13:32 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:13:32 -0500 Subject: Call for Sepakers/Proposals: USELINUX Message-ID: <20031119161332.64853612.gaf@blu.org> Here is Ted Tso's call for proposals for next summer's Unsenix in Boston http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix04/uselinux.html I will be a bit involved reviewing papers. Proposals are due on December 3. Call for Sepakers/Proposals: USELINUX USELINUX will be one (or possibly two) day special interest track hosted as part of the 2004 USENIX Annual Technical Conference in Boston (June 27 through July 2, 2004). The focus of USELINUX, as the name implies, will be on showcasing ways in which creative members of the Linux community are making use of Linux --- on the desktop, in embedded applications, in corporate data centers, in retail environments --- the possibilities are endless! We are soliciting proposals for presentations covering any of the following topics: [ XXX Help me with this list --- better ways of phrasing this list, additions to the list, etc., are all welcome! --- Ted ] * Linux advocacy --- convincing organizations to adopt Linux * Linux adoption in lesser developed countries * Embedded Linux applications * Technologies which enable the use of Linux - desktop technologies - integration with with legancy operating systems (i.e., Windows) * Case studies - Using Linux in Business - Commercial uses of free software * Organization issues: Linux Users Groups Proposals for more informal, "Bird of a Feather" sessions are also welcome. Submission guidelines: In order to judge a proposal, we are requesting a submission of a 2-3 page extended abstract of the proposed presentation. These abstracts must be submitted by December 16, 2003. While formal papers are requested, they are not required; in leiu of papers, camera-ready copies of the slides to be used in the presentation may be submitted by May 4, 2004. Formatting guidelines for papers may be found at: http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix04/freenixsubmit.html. IMPORTANT DATES: * Proposals due: December 16, 2003, 11:59 p.m. EST * Notification to authors: February 4, 2004 * Camera-ready papers due: May 4, 2004 USELINUX Program Committee Jerry Feldman Jim Gleason Bdale Garbee Jon "Maddog" Hall Don Marti Stacey Quandt Theodore Ts'o Victor Yodaiken -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 From mvalites at banta-im.com Wed Nov 19 16:23:13 2003 From: mvalites at banta-im.com (Matthew Valites) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:23:13 -0500 Subject: messed up signatures in fedora updates In-Reply-To: <1069269041.22158.23.camel@adler.photodetection.com> References: <1069269041.22158.23.camel@adler.photodetection.com> Message-ID: <3FBBDF41.5040006@banta-im.com> >I've gotten a couple of errors when running up2date in trying to >update my fedora core. The message is that the pgp (or gpg) >signatures are messed up. Anyone know anything about this? > > You can turn off the use of GPG signatures in up2date. On a RH9 box, run up2date --configure and select option 29: 29. useGPG No I'm sure this is fairly close to the Fedora release. If you're using yum at some point, this setting is taken care of in the yum.conf file. If you really want to use them, then I'd suggest checking your up2date-keyring, specified via the gpgKeyRing in up2date located in /etc/sysconfig/rhn/. ~Matt From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Wed Nov 19 21:56:27 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:56:27 -0500 Subject: The "what were they thinking" department Message-ID: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> I finally bit the bullet a month or so ago, and upgraded everything to Mandrake 9.1. There are lots of improvements in the applications, and it has current drivers for all the new stuff that we're buying at the office. But the compiler has gone through a major version change for me (gcc 2.95 --> 3.2.2), as so has the GUI toolkit we use, so there's been some minor porting to do. Much to my dismay, I've discovered that with the new compiler, one can't always set a breakpoint with the debugger properly. It turns out that gcc 3.x will sometimes generate two copies of the code for a C++ constructor (sort of the initialization routine for a class). See http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/gnatsweb.pl?database=gdb and view problem report #1193 To my much further dismay, I've discovered this has been a problem for almost 2 years!! The gdb folks list this as a known problem: http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/gdb/PROBLEMS?content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=src The gcc people don't seem to think that this is much of a problem. Read comment #3 in http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3187 But this isn't the only problem with the new compiler. Because of a change in the debug information, and a failure on the part of the gcc authors to eliminate redundant information, the size of my executables with debug information have increased by a factor of 6!! A 5mb executable becomes 30mb (I have several, mostly the user interace modules). This makes it next to impossible to transmit an update over a modem line. In fairness to the GCC folks, it also looks like C++ has becomre much more complicated in recent years. ANSI has been at work, making "improvements". Sigh!! From 235u at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 23:08:19 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:08:19 -0500 Subject: messed up signatures in fedora updates In-Reply-To: <3FBBF1EA.6080100@banta-im.com> References: <1069269041.22158.23.camel@adler.photodetection.com> <3FBBDF41.5040006@banta-im.com> <3FBBF033.4020109@comcast.net> <3FBBF1EA.6080100@banta-im.com> Message-ID: <3FBC3E33.3090502@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Matthew Valites wrote: | I'm not really sure why turning off gpg signatures on up2date would | compromise... ...either way, that's why I offered | the suggestions of using yum (a much better solution as stated by the RH | people) or what files to check with the up2date stuff... hi, there seems to be an issue with trying to use more than one solution on the same box, here's a snip i got in the mail, "Either one works well, and they do about the same thing. I think apt is a bit easier to use when installing new packages and resolving dependencies, but yum.up2date is the supported tool. Just don't run both. (At different times, of course!) I found myself in the situation where up2date choked because apt installed a higher level of a package than was available via up2date. It said the package had to be updated, but failed because the installed version was at a higher level than the "required" version." also, concerning what you said about turning off gpg, after thinking about it some more, you're right and i was wrong. here's another snip from www.securityfocus.com, "For an attacker to make use of this flaw, they would have to make unsigned packages appear on the Red Hat Network. Connections to the Red Hat Network servers are authenticated and verified by the use of SSL, so it is not possible to intercept the connection to Red Hat Network servers and give unsigned packages. To make use of this flaw, an attacker would have to compromise the Red Hat Network servers at Red Hat. Because of these factors, the risk of exploiting this bug is low." they are talking about the change of gpg sig that happened a little while back. there's easier ways to get root huh? hey to the gentleman who started this conversation, any luck on getting your up2date fixed? - -- loki_the_doppelganger http://home.comcast.net/~235u/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/vD4zMb0VvwEIaEsRAuRGAJ9Kb4ZAU/4iu75ry8m4Pu+6E2VekQCcCo3D 29Gz3QAZS9VoOaVmvB+HHZk= =JMjR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bobleigh at twomeeps.com Thu Nov 20 01:06:04 2003 From: bobleigh at twomeeps.com (Bob Leigh) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:06:04 -0500 Subject: screen (was: Update from my personal hell) In-Reply-To: ; from jrvz@comcast.net on Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:48:04PM -0500 References:

<20031113101030.B31715@bloop.local> Message-ID: <20031120010604.A14108@bloop.local> "James R. Van Zandt" wrote: > I've been using screen to control simulation runs that run anywhere up > to several hours. I use the -S option to give each session a > meaningful name. One thing I've missed is a way to change that name. > I've found that each session has a pipe in /var/run/screen/S-jrv, but > renaming that pipe breaks the session. Is there a way? I don't know how to do it from outside the session. However, you can do it within the session without disturbing what's running there. First, resume the session (if needed): screen -r whateversession Then type ^A : (control-A, colon) immediately followed by: sessionname newsessionname The session's name will change from "whateversession" to "newsessionname", as shown by 'screen -list' or by 'ls -l /var/run/screen/S-jrv'. Is that what you wanted? -- Bob Leigh bobleigh at twomeeps.com From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 20 08:10:54 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:10:54 -0500 Subject: The "what were they thinking" department In-Reply-To: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> Message-ID: <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:56:27 -0500 Glenn Burkhardt wrote: > In fairness to the GCC folks, it also looks like C++ has becomre much > more complicated in recent years. ANSI has been at work, making > "improvements". I think this is really the issue. We now have a rather complex yet powerful language. WRT: GDB&GCC, this looks like a finger-pointing issue. GDB wants it fixed in GCC, and GCC wants it fixed in GDB. I actually encountered this very same problem myself the other day. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/vL1e+wA+1cUGHqkRAnXKAJ0SgAMJ9gjD+dTNPlXauzga8AZ4lwCfRR32 SHziFb4pL+xjRuzG2fW7SFU= =eZHD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From r_darouich at yahoo.fr Wed Nov 19 04:51:22 2003 From: r_darouich at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?redouane=20darouich?=) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: Help me to install oracle 8.7.1 on RedHat 7.2 !!! Message-ID: <20031119095122.19799.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I am trying to run the Oracle universal Installer on RedHat 7.2 as user oracle in KDE and I am getting this error. oracle at redouane:/usr/src/Disk1 > ./runInstaller oracle at redouane:/usr/src/Disk1 > >Initializing Java Virtual Machine from >../stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/bin/jre. >Please wait... map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed map failed SIGSEGV received at bfffd870 in >/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/linux/native_threads/libjava.so. > >Processing terminated Mon May 14 16:34:33 2001 >jre full version "JDK 1.1.8 IBM build l118-20000713 (JIT enabled: jitc)" >Operating Environment --------------------- Host : redhat. OS >Level > : 2.4.0-4GB.#1 Wed Jan 24 15:55:09 GMT 2001 glibc Version : 2.2 No. >of >Procs : 1 Memory Info: total: used: free: shared: >buffers: >cached: Mem: 129261568 104591360 24670208 0 10485760 48599040 Swap: >139821056 0 139821056 MemTotal: 126232 kB MemFree: >24092 >kB MemShared: 0 kB Buffers: 10240 kB Cached: >47460 >kB Active: 52472 kB Inact_dirty: 5228 kB Inact_clean: >0 >kB Inact_target: 816 kB HighTotal: 0 kB HighFree: >0 >kB LowTotal: 126232 kB LowFree: 24092 kB SwapTotal: >136544 >kB SwapFree: 136544 kB >User Limits (in bytes except for NOFILE and NPROC) - RLIMIT_FSIZE > : >infinity RLIMIT_DATA : infinity RLIMIT_STACK : >2093056 > RLIMIT_CORE : 0 RLIMIT_NOFILE : >1024 RLIMIT_NPROC > : 4095 >Application Environment ----------------------- Signal Handlers - >SIGQUIT : ignored SIGILL : sysThreadIDump >(libjava.so) SIGABRT : sysThreadIDump (libjava.so) >SIGFPE : sysThreadIDump (libjava.so) SIGBUS : >sysThreadIDump (libjava.so) SIGSEGV : sysThreadIDump >(libjava.so) SIGPIPE : ignored SIGUSR1 : >doSuspendLoop (libjava.so) >Environment Variables - PWD=/usr/src/Disk1/install >LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/oracle/.kde2/lib:/opt/kde2/lib >konq_sm_file=/opt/kde2/share/config/RedHat/config/konqueror:1054d0ebe2000097566852400000014220002 > > PAGER=less HOSTNAME=redhat >LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/linux/native_threads:/lib:/usr/lib:/opt/kde/lib:/home/oracle/.kde2/lib:/opt/kde2/lib > > LS_OPTIONS=-N --color=tty -T 0 ignoreeof=0 >KDEDIRS=/etc/opt/kde2:/opt/kde2 KDEHOME=/home/oracle/.kde2 >POVRAYOPT=-l/usr/lib/povray/include RedHat_DOC_HOST=localhost >QTDIR=/usr/lib/qt2/ OPENWINHOME=/usr/openwin D=32 >CLASSPATH=/tmp/OraInstall:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/OraInstaller.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/InstImages.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/InstHelp.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/oracleice.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/help.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/ewt.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/xmlparser.jar:../stage/Components/oracle.swd.oui/1.7.1.8.0/1/DataFiles/Expanded/lib/swingaccess.jar:/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/rt.jar:/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/i18n.jar:/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Co >mponents/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/math.jar:/usr/src/Disk1/stage! >/Compo >n >ents/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/classes.zip > LESSKEY=/etc/lesskey.bin LESSOPEN=|lesspipe.sh %s >MANPATH=/usr/local/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/man:/usr/X11R6/man:/usr/openwin/man > LANGUAGE=english NNTPSERVER=news KDEDIR=/opt/kde > > LESS=-M -S -I USER=oracle >LS_COLORS=no=00:fi=00:di=01;34:ln=01:pi=40;33:so=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:ex=01;31:*.cmd=01;32:*.exe=01;32:*.com=01;32:*.btm=01;32:*.bat=01;32:*.tar=00;31:*.tbz=00;31:*.tgz=00;31:*.rpm=00;31:*.arj=00;31:*.taz=00;31:*.lzh=00;31:*.zip=00;31:*.z=00;31:*.Z=00;31:*.gz=00;31:*.bz2=00;31:*.jpg=01;35:*.gif=01;35:*.bmp=01;35:*.xbm=01;35:*.xpm=01;35:*.tif=01;35:*.png=01;35: > > HISTCONTROL=ignoredups XSESSION_IS_UP=yes >THREADS_TYPE=native_threads MACHTYPE=i386-redhat-linux >XKEYSYMDB=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB THREADS_FLAG=native >LANG=en_US GNOMEDIR=/opt/gnome >JAVA_HOME=/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux > > COLORTERM= X=800 >INFOPATH=/usr/local/info:/usr/share/info:/usr/info Y=600 >DISPLAY=:0 LOGNAME=oracle SHLVL=3 >TEXINPUTS=:::~/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX:~/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX:~/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX > > MINICOM=-c on >INFODIR=/usr/local/info:/usr/share/info:/usr/info >SESSION_MANAGER=local/redhat:/tmp/.ICE-unix/698 KDE_INITIAL_DESKTOP=1 > SHELL=/bin/bash PRINTER=lp HOSTTYPE=i386 >QT_XFT=Y > OSTYPE=linux WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/X11R6/bin/kde >HOME=/home/oracle TERM=kvt XNLSPATH=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/nls > no_proxy=localhost >PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/opt/kde2/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin:/usr/lib/java/bin:/usr/games/bin:/usr/games:/opt/gnome/bin:/opt/kde2/bin:/opt/kde/bin:. > > LESSCHARSET=latin1 FROM_HEADER=YAST_ASK >LC_COLLATE=POSIX >LIBPATH=/usr/src/Disk1/stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/lib/linux/native_threads > >Libraries Loaded by the JVM ---------------------------

libjitc.so >libzip.so > >Current Thread Details ---------------------- "main" (TID:0x403022d8, >sys_thread_t:0x804d4f8) Native Thread State: Pid: 722 ThreadID: >00000400 >Reuse: 1 USER PRIMORDIAL RUNNING Native Stack Data : base: bfffed70 >pointer bffdf754 used(128540) free(-11804) ----- Monitors held >----- > ----- Native stack >----- java_lang_System_initProperties >Java_java_lang_System_initProperties_stub invokeNativeMethod >invokeLazyNativeMethod __irem_trap6 ------ Java stack >------ > () prio=5 *current thread* >java.lang.System.initializeSystemClass(System.java) >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Total Thread Count: 3 Active Thread Count: 3 JNI Thread Count: >0 >Full thread dump: "Async Garbage Collector" (TID:0x40302238, >sys_thread_t:0x80bb678) Native Thread State: Pid: 728 ThreadID: >00000803 >Reuse: 1 DAEMON MONITOR WAIT Native Stack Data : base: bf5ffb30 >pointer >bf5ff924 used(524) free(116212) ----- Monitors held ----- >----- Native stack ----- sysMonitorWait sysThreadSleep >threadSleep SetOrigArgs sysThread_shell >pthread_detach > __clone ------ Java stack ------ () prio=1 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Finalizer thread" (TID:0x40302288, sys_thread_t:0x80bb3f8) Native >Thread State: Pid: 727 ThreadID: 00000402 Reuse: 1 DAEMON MONITOR WAIT >Native Stack Data : base: bf7ffb30 pointer bf7ff998 used(408) free(116328) > ----- Monitors held ----- ----- Native stack ----- >sysMonitorWait - waiting on Finalize me queue lock finalizeOnExit > sysThread_shell pthread_detach __clone ------ >Java >stack ------ () prio=1 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "main" (TID:0x403022d8, sys_thread_t:0x804d4f8) Native Thread >State: >Pid: 722 ThreadID: 00000400 Reuse: 1 USER PRIMORDIAL RUNNING Native >Stack >Data : base: bfffed70 pointer bffdf748 used(128552) free(-11816) >----- Monitors held ----- ----- Native stack ----- >java_lang_System_initProperties >Java_java_lang_System_initProperties_stub invokeNativeMethod >invokeLazyNativeMethod __irem_trap6 ------ Java stack >------ > () prio=5 *current thread* >java.lang.System.initializeSystemClass(System.java) >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >System Monitor Status --------------------- >Thread queue lock: unowned. >Name and type hash table lock: unowned. >String intern lock: unowned. >JNI pinning lock: unowned. >JNI global reference lock: unowned. >Zip lock: unowned. >BinClass lock: unowned. >Class loading lock: unowned. >Java stack lock: unowned. >Code rewrite lock: unowned. >Heap Lock: unowned. >Has finalization >queue lock: unowned. >Finalize me queue lock: unowned. >Integer lock access-lock: unowned. >Monitor cache lock: unowned. >Monitor registry: unowned. >Object Monitor Status --------------------- OK And I'am Installing the Java Virtual Machine : jdk118_v3−glibc−2.1.3.tar.bz2 as bash# mv jdk118_v3−glibc−2.1.3.tar.bz2 /usr/local untar it: bash# tar xvIf jdk118_v3−glibc−2.1.3.tar.bz2 and create a symbolic link to the folder the command here above has just created: bash# ln −s /usr/local/jdk118_v3 /usr/local/java My .bash_file is joined to this mail: can you suggest anything help. Thanks. ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran)B?ais ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com From adler at photodetection.com Wed Nov 19 12:16:41 2003 From: adler at photodetection.com (Stephen Adler) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:16:41 -0500 Subject: messed up signatures Message-ID: <1069262201.22158.3.camel@adler.photodetection.com> Guys, I've been using up2date to pull over some fedora core 1 updates and its reporting that the signatures are messed up. As anyone looked into this? Has the fedora pgp signature changed? Steve. From jrvz at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 21:48:04 2003 From: jrvz at comcast.net (James R. Van Zandt) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:04 -0500 Subject: screen (was: Update from my personal hell) In-Reply-To: <20031113101030.B31715@bloop.local> (message from Bob Leigh on Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:10:30 -0500) References:

<20031113101030.B31715@bloop.local> Message-ID: Bob Leigh wrote: >gboyce at badbelly.com wrote: >> Does screen have a scroll buffer? > >Yes, there's a scrollback buffer per "window". ... >Hitting the spacebar marks a position in the buffer. Hitting it again >copies everything from the mark to the current position. >Control-A ] pastes into the current window. >Control-A > writes the paste buffer to a file. I've been using screen to control simulation runs that run anywhere up to several hours. I use the -S option to give each session a meaningful name. One thing I've missed is a way to change that name. I've found that each session has a pipe in /var/run/screen/S-jrv, but renaming that pipe breaks the session. Is there a way? - Jim Van Zandt From gboyce at badbelly.com Thu Nov 20 08:08:14 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:08:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: messed up signatures in fedora updates In-Reply-To: <3FBC3E33.3090502@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, eric wrote: > "For an attacker to make use of this flaw, they would have to make > unsigned packages appear on the Red Hat Network. Connections to the Red > Hat Network servers are authenticated and verified by the use of SSL, so > it is not possible to intercept the connection to Red Hat Network > servers and give unsigned packages. To make use of this flaw, an > attacker would have to compromise the Red Hat Network servers at Red > Hat. Because of these factors, the risk of exploiting this bug is low." I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that up2date on Fedora is pulling from a yum repository rather than a redhat network up2date server. (up2date in fedora definitely has the ability to use a yum server, or an apt repository for that matter). If this is the case, then SSL portion of the check here isn't valid, and it could be possible for someone with access to your DNS server to point you to a new repository with modified packages. -- Greg From kclark at CetaceanNetworks.com Thu Nov 20 10:07:52 2003 From: kclark at CetaceanNetworks.com (Kevin D. Clark) Date: 20 Nov 2003 10:07:52 -0500 Subject: The "what were they thinking" department In-Reply-To: <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: Jerry Feldman writes: > I think this is really the issue. We now have a rather complex yet > powerful language. WRT: GDB&GCC, this looks like a finger-pointing > issue. GDB wants it fixed in GCC, and GCC wants it fixed in GDB. Not that I want to get into a flame-war or anything, but I think that the GDB folks are going to have to fix this. My reasoning: GCC emits multiple functions to implement ctors so it can implement virtual base classes in such a way that the code is compatable with the new C++ ABI. However, other compilers can generate code like this as well. Since gdb purports to support C++ binaries produced by compilers other than the gcc family, gdb will have to be enhanced in this area. > I actually encountered this very same problem myself the other day. Hmm. This explains a problem I had a while ago too. Damn... Regards, --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 20 10:26:27 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:26:27 -0500 Subject: The "what were they thinking" department In-Reply-To: References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <20031120102627.2124a370.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 20 Nov 2003 10:07:52 -0500 kclark at CetaceanNetworks.com (Kevin D. Clark) wrote: > Not that I want to get into a flame-war or anything, but I think that > the GDB folks are going to have to fix this. > > My reasoning: GCC emits multiple functions to implement ctors so it > can implement virtual base classes in such a way that the code is > compatable with the new C++ ABI. However, other compilers can > generate code like this as well. Since gdb purports to support C++ > binaries produced by compilers other than the gcc family, gdb will > have to be enhanced in this area. I think you are correct. GDB has been adopted as the standard debugger by some vendors, such as HP. HP's WDB is simply a graphical front end to GDB. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/vN0j+wA+1cUGHqkRAg18AJ0f0yfd6+pQMa2lj9HTijxsnby8lwCffsut +r3QP8qvZCscI77igXHsfA8= =CMNt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From agabriel at home.tzo.org Thu Nov 20 12:59:24 2003 From: agabriel at home.tzo.org (Anthony J. Gabrielson) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:59:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco Message-ID: Sorry to show with a beaten topic, but I many will find this of interest. It looks like sco is going after the 1994 AT&T/BSD settlement. Here is the linkhttp://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 From gaf at blu.org Thu Nov 20 14:04:06 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:04:06 -0500 Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:59:24 -0500 (EST) "Anthony J. Gabrielson" wrote: > > Sorry to show with a beaten topic, but I many will find this of > interest. It looks like sco is going after the 1994 AT&T/BSD > settlement. Here is the > linkhttp://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=2&ti > d=82&tid=85&tid=94 Looks like David Boies is the only one who is going to win on this. SCO also announced that they were going to sue Novell if Novell went ahead and acquired SuSE. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/vRAm+wA+1cUGHqkRAhNSAJ9U6tUOOkzQv3zVHevLCmrzVUWOaQCfdsjA 8a+epWM8gArJ+SpnvaIZ78M= =eqUW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From adler at bnl.gov Thu Nov 20 15:46:06 2003 From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:46:06 -0500 Subject: cpu activity Message-ID: <1069361166.5114.5.camel@adler.photodetection.com> I'm thinking of writing a quick and dirty routine which gets the total cpu activity which top reports. I was wondering if there was a field under the /proc file system which reports system,user, idle cpu activity or if there is a system call which returns this. Cheers. Steve. From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 20 15:55:03 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:55:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: cpu activity In-Reply-To: <1069361166.5114.5.camel@adler.photodetection.com> References: <1069361166.5114.5.camel@adler.photodetection.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: > I'm thinking of writing a quick and dirty routine which > gets the total cpu activity which top reports. I was > wondering if there was a field under the /proc file system > which reports system,user, idle cpu activity or if there > is a system call which returns this. > > Cheers. Steve. /proc/loadavg though I don't know much about it, that's the most likely candidate. -- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D If you don't know who you are, the stock market is an expensive DK KD place to find out. DDDD -Adam Smith From cdevers at pobox.com Thu Nov 20 16:04:05 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:04:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> References: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Jerry Feldman wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:59:24 -0500 (EST) > "Anthony J. Gabrielson" wrote: > > > Sorry to show with a beaten topic, but I many will find this of > > interest. It looks like sco is going after the 1994 AT&T/BSD > > settlement. Here is the link > > > Looks like David Boies is the only one who is going to win on this. > > SCO also announced that they were going to sue Novell if Novell went > ahead and acquired SuSE. Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? As they say, "nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." It's really an elegant solution if you think about it... -- Chris Devers cdevers at pobox.com http://devers.homeip.net:8080/blog/ np: 'Dude, Where's My Country - Michael Moore-05 of 10' by Michael Moore from 'Dude, Where's My Country?' From cdevers at pobox.com Thu Nov 20 16:07:45 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:07:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: cpu activity Message-ID: Surely this is one of the simpler ways to do it: $ uptime 16:04 up 7 days, 19:45, 8 users, load averages: 4.74 4.25 3.55 $ uptime | awk '{print $10}' 4.78 Wouldn't anything from /proc just have that same value? -- Chris Devers cdevers at pobox.com http://devers.homeip.net:8080/blog/ np: 'Dude, Where's My Country - Michael Moore-05 of 10' by Michael Moore from 'Dude, Where's My Country?' From adler at bnl.gov Thu Nov 20 16:20:23 2003 From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:20:23 -0500 Subject: cpu activity In-Reply-To: References: <1069361166.5114.5.camel@adler.photodetection.com> Message-ID: <1069363223.5114.7.camel@adler.photodetection.com> Actually, I've answered my own question... The basic info is under /proc/stat [adler at master adler]$ cat /proc/stat cpu 3256169 84027 146187 6083842 cpu0 3256169 84027 146187 6083842 page 721666 1219861 swap 8492 30127 intr 24254489 9570225 22962 0 4 4 0 4 2 1 6349852 0 6480174 865931 0 204602 760728 disk_io: (3,0):(204788,67727,1441650,137061,2439622) (8,0):(37,29,450,8,72) ctxt 149799837 btime 1069267490 processes 18136 The cpu and cpu0 have the pertinent info which top displays. Cheers. Steve. On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 15:55, David Kramer wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Stephen Adler wrote: > > > I'm thinking of writing a quick and dirty routine which > > gets the total cpu activity which top reports. I was > > wondering if there was a field under the /proc file system > > which reports system,user, idle cpu activity or if there > > is a system call which returns this. > > > > Cheers. Steve. > > /proc/loadavg > though I don't know much about it, that's the most likely candidate. From beach at verinet.com Thu Nov 20 16:27:15 2003 From: beach at verinet.com (David J. C. Beach) Date: 20 Nov 2003 16:27:15 -0500 Subject: cpu activity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069363635.20408.134.camel@sim> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:07, Chris Devers wrote: > Surely this is one of the simpler ways to do it: > > $ uptime > 16:04 up 7 days, 19:45, 8 users, load averages: 4.74 4.25 3.55 > > $ uptime | awk '{print $10}' > 4.78 > > Wouldn't anything from /proc just have that same value? uptime or /proc/update works nice if you want a longer-running load average of cpu usage. At other times, it's a lot nicer to get a measurement of "instantaeous" CPU usage (as a percentage). You can do this by peeking at /proc/stat. The first line looks like this: cpu where the last 4 items are integer counts of a number of jiffies. According to the man page, a jiffie is 1/100th of a second. If you compare the values of reading /proc/stat twice in a row, which a small interval of time in between (it can be less than 1 second, but should probably be a least 1/10th of a second), you can get a crude idea for the instaneanous use on your CPU. Dave -- David J. C. Beach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From beach at verinet.com Thu Nov 20 16:31:09 2003 From: beach at verinet.com (David J. C. Beach) Date: 20 Nov 2003 16:31:09 -0500 Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: References: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: > > > Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of > Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? > > As they say, "nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." > > It's really an elegant solution if you think about it... > > Yes, but it's just not personal enough. I'm really not sure that watching Utah go up in a mushroom cloud will satiate my violent fanticies about the ultimate demise of SCO. Dave -- David J. C. Beach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cdevers at pobox.com Thu Nov 20 16:38:46 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:38:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> References: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, David J. C. Beach wrote: > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: > > > > > > Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of > > Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? > > > > As they say, "nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." > > > > It's really an elegant solution if you think about it... > > > > > > Yes, but it's just not personal enough. I'm really not sure that > watching Utah go up in a mushroom cloud will satiate my violent > fanticies about the ultimate demise of SCO. Okay, that's fine, but aside from the vague sense of personal dissatisfaction, you can see that it would actually take care of the problem nicely, right? I mean, making it personally is nice and all, but if this takes care of it then it's worth doing. What's the collateral going to be, a bunch of SUVs & Dick Cheney's ranch? No loss there, right? :) -- Chris Devers cdevers at pobox.com http://devers.homeip.net:8080/blog/ np: 'Dude, Where's My Country - Michael Moore-06 of 10' by Michael Moore from 'Dude, Where's My Country?' From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 20 16:40:08 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:40:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> References: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, David J. C. Beach wrote: > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: > > > > > > Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of > > Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? > > > > As they say, "nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." > > > > It's really an elegant solution if you think about it... > > > > > > Yes, but it's just not personal enough. I'm really not sure that > watching Utah go up in a mushroom cloud will satiate my violent > fanticies about the ultimate demise of SCO. Nah, they only have to suffer for a few seconds that way. What we need to do is set up a big nuclear reactor, a superfund waste dumping site, and high-security federal prison all within walking distance from HQ. Four birds with one stone. And if they act up again, we threaten to open the gates to the tunnel leading from the prison to the nuclear power plant. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD "Always listen to the experts. DKK D They'll tell you what can't be done and why. DK KD Then do it." DDDD Robert Heinlein From david at thekramers.net Thu Nov 20 16:41:40 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:41:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: References: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Chris Devers wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, David J. C. Beach wrote: > > > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: > > > > > > > > > Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of > > > Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? > > > > > > As they say, "nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." > > > > > > It's really an elegant solution if you think about it... > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but it's just not personal enough. I'm really not sure that > > watching Utah go up in a mushroom cloud will satiate my violent > > fanticies about the ultimate demise of SCO. > > Okay, that's fine, but aside from the vague sense of personal > dissatisfaction, you can see that it would actually take care > of the problem nicely, right? > > I mean, making it personally is nice and all, but if this takes > care of it then it's worth doing. What's the collateral going to > be, a bunch of SUVs & Dick Cheney's ranch? No loss there, right? Hmm. My way makes sure they can't breed even if they do live. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD "Always listen to the experts. DKK D They'll tell you what can't be done and why. DK KD Then do it." DDDD Robert Heinlein From drew at drewtaylor.com Thu Nov 20 18:21:23 2003 From: drew at drewtaylor.com (Drew Taylor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:21:23 -0500 Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: References: <20031120140406.2b75b1b6.gaf@blu.org> <1069363869.23264.138.camel@sim> Message-ID: <3FBD4C73.9050405@drewtaylor.com> Chris Devers wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, David J. C. Beach wrote: > > >>On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of >>>Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? >>> >>>As they say, "nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." >>> >>>It's really an elegant solution if you think about it... >>> >>> >> >>Yes, but it's just not personal enough. I'm really not sure that >>watching Utah go up in a mushroom cloud will satiate my violent >>fanticies about the ultimate demise of SCO. > > > Okay, that's fine, but aside from the vague sense of personal > dissatisfaction, you can see that it would actually take care > of the problem nicely, right? > > I mean, making it personally is nice and all, but if this takes > care of it then it's worth doing. What's the collateral going to > be, a bunch of SUVs & Dick Cheney's ranch? No loss there, right? Well, I have friends in UT so I'd miss them. And the rest of the US would miss the skiing. The rockies in UT and CO have the best snow in the country IMHO. Oh, and we'd lose the Sundance Film Festival. No big loss there. :-) Drew From gaf at blu.org Fri Nov 21 10:29:11 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:29:11 -0500 Subject: Backup issues Message-ID: <20031121102911.34aaf634.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 About a week ago I posted a message regarding rsync readlink WINDOWS/FONTS/TT0084M_.TTF: Too many open files in system Where I was mounting my wife's exported Windows C: drive. After some fiddling I decided to try a straight copy using the cp command: cp -av $FROM $TO Other than it copies every file where I had rsync set up to exclude some files and also only copy what did not change, cp worked perfectly. My thoughts are that either rsync is trying to be very smart by trying to do a lot of stuff in parallel or it is failing to close some files. (BTW: I am maintaining essentially a mirror of my wife's system rather than a classic archival backup). - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/vi9G+wA+1cUGHqkRAqiEAJ9h0IbHEDhsOvYlSV/z5nD5bhFx5QCePzEg t31dcmvQIHTJyAIyGaaJV28= =l34U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From richb at pioneer.ci.net Fri Nov 21 17:05:19 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:05:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: <20031121170101.C3366271A8@asgard.blu.org> References: <20031121170101.C3366271A8@asgard.blu.org> Message-ID: <37490.66.31.42.38.1069452319.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: >> > Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of >> > Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? Isn't that the place where a marriage is defined as a relationship between one man and one or more women? And isn't that where our guv'nah got his political education? ;-) -rich p.s. First, we get rid of the lawyers... From bob at sinister.com Fri Nov 21 17:31:43 2003 From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:31:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: <37490.66.31.42.38.1069452319.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Rich Braun wrote: > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 16:04, Chris Devers wrote: > >> > Would anyone feel badly -- or notice! -- if we just, like, got rid of > >> > Utah? Wouldn't that take care of the issue? > > Isn't that the place where a marriage is defined as a relationship between one > man and one or more women? And isn't that where our guv'nah got his > political education? Utah normalized with the rest of the US law regarding monogamy when it became a state. At that time, some mormons who refused to conform moved to Mexico, where they were allowed to continue practicing polygamy. But still, polygamy does exist in a sort of underground way in Utah. As far as getting rid of Utah, there is a ground of people who refuse to believe that it exists, having never been there. From geer at world.std.com Fri Nov 21 17:39:29 2003 From: geer at world.std.com (Dan Geer) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:39:29 -0500 Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:31:43 EST." Message-ID: <200311212239.RAA12433@world.std.com> With respect, Utah is a fine place and life is short. --dan From cdevers at pobox.com Fri Nov 21 17:44:26 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:44:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Bob Keyes wrote: > As far as getting rid of Utah, there is a ground of people who refuse to > believe that it exists, having never been there. So it's like string theory: we can't come up with any tests that verify that it's real, but there's been so much noise from SCO that it's just *got* to be true. Interesting :) Personally, I blame Drew Taylor. -- Chris Devers running away From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu Fri Nov 21 17:51:28 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:51:28 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home desktop computer for email and access to all the enhancements of varied web sites. Message-ID: a. You're putting together a home desktop computer with GNU/Linux for email and for access to all the features and enhancements, of varied web sites, emphasis on access to all of the features of varied web sites and emphasis on access to all of the enhancements of varied web sites, what motherboard would you look to for this device?... b. What other basic home desktop computer hardware for GNU/Linux would you want included for this machine?... In asking around even the best people either reply with jargon that enthusiastic neophytes wouldn't get or respond obliquely that answers could be presumptive of the general lack of acknowledgement of problems that consumers have with, for example, the dell or the iMac computers. Some references tried http://www.pcsforeveryone.com http://www.vcr1.com/263195.html From bconway at alum.wpi.edu Fri Nov 21 18:54:20 2003 From: bconway at alum.wpi.edu (Brian J. Conway) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:54:20 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home desktop computer for email and access to all the enhancements of varied web sites. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031121185420.2143e98c.bconway@alum.wpi.edu> What's with all the open-ended questions vaguely related to Linux? http://www.blu.org/pipermail/discuss/2003-November/044066.html http://www.blu.org/pipermail/discuss/2003-November/044113.html http://www.blu.org/pipermail/discuss/2003-November/044139.html Are we doing homework for you or something? To answer the latest (and first) question, there are a number of sites dedicated to reviewing hardware quality and Linux compatability, including http://www.linuxhardware.org/ and http://www.linuxhardware.net/ . -b On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:51:28 -0500 Don Saklad wrote: > a. You're putting together a home desktop computer with GNU/Linux for > email > and for access to all the features and enhancements, of varied web > sites, emphasis on access to all of the features of varied web sites > and emphasis on access to all of the enhancements of varied web > sites, what motherboard would you look to for this device?... > > > > b. What other basic home desktop computer hardware for GNU/Linux > would you want included for this machine?... > > > > In asking around even the best people either reply with jargon that > enthusiastic neophytes wouldn't get or respond obliquely that answers > could be presumptive of the general lack of acknowledgement of problems > that consumers have with, for example, the dell or the iMac computers. > > > > Some references tried > http://www.pcsforeveryone.com > http://www.vcr1.com/263195.html > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Brian J. Conway bconway at alum.wpi.edu "LINUX is obsolete" - Andrew S. Tanenbaum, creator of Minix - Jan 29, 1992 From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu Fri Nov 21 19:12:45 2003 From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:12:45 -0500 Subject: How to put together a home desktop computer for email and access to all the enhancements of varied web sites. In-Reply-To: <20031121185420.2143e98c.bconway@alum.wpi.edu> References: <20031121185420.2143e98c.bconway@alum.wpi.edu> Message-ID: Thank you for the pointers Brian J. Conway ! Apparantly a better way to frame the right question has escaped me because the helpful information while useful doesn't go as directly to the mark of what to do step by step to put together a home desktop computer for email and access to all the enhancements of varied web sites. Ever try. Ever fail. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22ever+fail%22+%22fail+better%22 From shark at ll.mit.edu Fri Nov 21 19:24:08 2003 From: shark at ll.mit.edu (Gregory Gimler) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:24:08 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20031120102627.2124a370.gaf@blu.org> References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Has anyone out there used any other free code version tools other than CVS for Linux? I've read some good things about subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) but I'm a bit reluctant to jump to a 0.33 release of anything. Has anyone used this or any other tools they find superior to CVS? Thanks. -Greg From warlord at MIT.EDU Fri Nov 21 20:05:22 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:05:22 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> (Gregory Gimler's message of "Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:24:08 -0500") References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Message-ID: What is your definition of "free"? I happen to like Bitkeeper, but many people don't consider it "free". (Project, anyone?) -derek Gregory Gimler writes: > Has anyone out there used any other free code version tools other than > CVS for Linux? I've read some good things about > subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) but I'm a bit reluctant to > jump to a 0.33 release of anything. Has anyone used this > or any other tools they find superior to CVS? Thanks. > > > > -Greg > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From ron.peterson at yellowbank.com Fri Nov 21 21:03:43 2003 From: ron.peterson at yellowbank.com (ron.peterson at yellowbank.com) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:03:43 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 08:05:22PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > What is your definition of "free"? Everyone seems to have their own personal Jesus these days. And likewise with the definition of free. It's not that complicated. Just look the word up in a dictionary: % dict free From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.44 [gcide]: Free \Free\ (fr[=e]), a. [Compar. {Freer} (-[~e]r); superl. {Freest} (-[e^]st).] [OE. fre, freo, AS. fre['o], fr[=i]; akin to D. vrij, OS. & OHG. fr[=i], G. frei, Icel. fr[=i], Sw. & Dan. fri, Goth. freis, and also to Skr. prija beloved, dear, fr. pr[=i] to love, Goth. frij[=o]n. Cf. {Affray}, {Belfry}, {Friday}, {Friend}, {Frith} inclosure.] 1. Exempt from subjection to the will of others; not under restraint, control, or compulsion; able to follow one's own impulses, desires, or inclinations; determining one's own course of action; not dependent; at liberty. [1913 Webster] That which has the power, or not the power, to operate, is that alone which is or is not free. --Locke. [1913 Webster] Exempt from the subjection to the will of others. That seems pretty plain and simple to me. The whys wherefors and whatnot of how this definition has become so occluded elude me. -- Ron Peterson -o) 87 Taylor Street /\\ Granby, MA 01033 _\_v https://www.yellowbank.com/ ---- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From richb at pioneer.ci.net Fri Nov 21 22:20:09 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:20:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? In-Reply-To: <20031118170102.2F9D0273AB@asgard.blu.org> References: <20031118170102.2F9D0273AB@asgard.blu.org> Message-ID: <39250.66.31.42.38.1069471209.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> "jerry miu" observed: > I get a connection timed out; no servers can be reached Well, Comcast finally fixed the problem today after 5 days of downtime. My inaddr lookups finally stopped timing out (it was causing sluggish performance whenever I went to remote ssh or http servers that do an inaddr lookup, perhaps they got a lot of complaints and finally woke up to the problem). Boy do I miss the olden days when you could call up a local ISP with fewer than 100 employees and quickly get on the phone with the DNS or router admin... -rich From warlord at MIT.EDU Fri Nov 21 22:21:15 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:21:15 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> (ron peterson's message of "Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:03:43 -0500") References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> Message-ID: ron.peterson at yellowbank.com writes: > On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 08:05:22PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >> What is your definition of "free"? > > Everyone seems to have their own personal Jesus these days. And > likewise with the definition of free. It's not that complicated. Just > look the word up in a dictionary: I did. My definition is quite longer than your (or at least I'm willing to not cut out some potentially irrelevant or complicating definitions that don't happen to quite make my point). However in my case it DOES make my point.. There are many definitions of "free". --> webster free 1. free \'fre-\ aj or fre.er; or fre.est [ME, fr. OE fre-o; akin to OHG fri- free, Gk prays gent]le 1a: having the legal and political rights of a citizen 1b: enjoying civil and political liberty {~ citizens} 1c: enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination 1d: not dependent on others : SELF-RELIANT 2a: not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being {a ~ agent} 2b: determined by the choice of the actor or by his wishes {~ actions} 2c: made, done, or given voluntarily or spontaneously : SPONTANEOUS 3a: exempt, relieved, or released esp. from a burdensome, noxious, or deplorable condition or obligation {~ from pain} 3b: not bound, confined, or detained by force {prisoner was now ~} 4a: having no trade restrictions {~ port} 4b: not subject to government regulation of foreign exchange 4c: not subject to restriction or official control 5: having no obligations (as to work) or commitments (as to duty or custom) {~ evening} 6: having a scope not restricted by qualification {~ variable} 7a1: not obstructed or impeded : CLEAR {~ and open highway} 7a2: not being used or occupied {waved with his ~ hand} 7b: not hampered or restricted in its normal operation : LOOSE 7c: allowed to be executed without interference from the opposing side {~ kick} 8a: not fastened {~ end of the rope} 8b: not confined to a particular position or place 8c: capable of moving or turning in any direction {~ particle} 8d: performed without apparatus {~ tumbling} 9a: not parsimonious {~ spending} 9b: OUTSPOKEN 9c: availing oneself of something without stint 9d: FRANK, OPEN 9e: overly familiar or forward in action or attitude 9f: LICENTIOUS 10: not costing or charging anything 11a: not united or combined with something else : SEPARATED {~ ore} 11b: NATIVE {~ oxygen} 11c: not permanently attached but able to move about of accent 11d: not occurring on the same syllable in all words of a linguistic form 11e: capable of being used alone with meaning {the word hats is a ~ form} 12a: not literal or exact {~ translation} 12b: not restricted by or conforming to conventional forms {~ skating} 13: FAVORABLE - used of a wind blowing from a direction more than six points from straight ahead 14: not allowing slavery 15: open to all comers SYN syn FREE, INDEPENDENT, SOVEREIGN, AUTONOMOUS mean not subject to the rule or control of another. FREE stresses the complete absence of external rule and the full right to make all of one's own decisions; INDEPENDENT implies a standing alone; applied to a state it implies lack of connection with any other having power to interfere with its citizens, laws, or policies; SOVEREIGN stresses the absence of a superior power and implies supremacy within a thing's own domain or sphere; AUTONOMOUS stresses independence in matters pertaining to self-government, but usu. implies at the same time a recognition of sovereignty of a higher or central power in foreign relations and policy - free.ly av 2. free av 1: FREELY 2: without charge {admitted~} 3: with the wind more than six points from dead ahead {sailing ~} 3. free vt or freed; or free.ing 1a: to cause to be free 1b: RELIEVE, RID 1c: DISENTANGLE, CLEAR obs 2: BANISH SYN syn FREE, RELEASE, LIBERATE, EMANCIPATE, MANUMIT, DISCHARGE mean to set loose from restraint or constraint. FREE implies a usu. permanent removal from whatever binds, confines, entangles, or oppresses; RELEASE suggests a setting loose from confinement, restraint, or a state of pressure or tension, often without implication of permanent liberation; LIBERATE stresses particularly the resulting state of liberty; EMANCIPATE implies the liberation of a person from subjection or domination; MANUMIT implies emancipation from slavery; DISCHARGE may imply liberation or merely ejection or emission from confinement or a containing that is not necessarily restraint > Exempt from the subjection to the will of others. That seems pretty > plain and simple to me. The whys wherefors and whatnot of how this > definition has become so occluded elude me. Because there are many other definitions, too. Personally I like the definition "with the wind more than six points from the dead ahead". Granted, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. My point is that "free" can mean "you pay nothing", in which case bitkeeper is free. Or it can mean what you mean, in which case bitkeeper is not free. OTOH even the GPL is putting a restriction on what you can (or cannot) do with something. So, I'm sorry that simple (complicated?) definitions elude you. I was asking a reasonable question considering the fact that, how did you put it? "Everyone has their own personal Jesus" -- I was just inquiring about the "personal Jesus" of the original question-asker. Have a nice weekend. And dont spend too much looking for your "free" answers. And just remember, dumb looks ARE still "free". Here's one for "free"dom! And don't forget your own free will. -derek, who is sick of self-righteousness in the OSS world. -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From gaf at blu.org Sat Nov 22 08:29:53 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:29:53 -0500 Subject: DNS went haywire yesterday? In-Reply-To: <39250.66.31.42.38.1069471209.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> References: <20031118170102.2F9D0273AB@asgard.blu.org> <39250.66.31.42.38.1069471209.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: <20031122082953.332cabaa.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:20:09 -0500 (EST) "Rich Braun" wrote: > Well, Comcast finally fixed the problem today after 5 days of > downtime. My inaddr lookups finally stopped timing out (it was > causing sluggish performance whenever I went to remote ssh or http > servers that do an inaddr lookup, perhaps they got a lot of complaints > and finally woke up to the problem). > > Boy do I miss the olden days when you could call up a local ISP with > fewer than 100 employees and quickly get on the phone with the DNS or > router admin... And were each proprietor knew one another :-) - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/v2TR+wA+1cUGHqkRAtpEAJ0evK6bn359mp/5IQ8yddCz5ncVfwCfXsqV cDte1+9b7BnOerU+yxg3yUA= =KJ7x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at thekramers.net Sat Nov 22 09:56:32 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:56:32 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Message-ID: <200311220956.32792.david@thekramers.net> On Friday 21 November 2003 19:24, Gregory Gimler wrote: > Has anyone out there used any other free code version tools other than CVS > for Linux? I've read some good things about > subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) but I'm a bit reluctant to jump > to a 0.33 release of anything. Has anyone used this > or any other tools they find superior to CVS? Thanks. How about we leave off the semantics and ask what you don't like about CVS? ------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "Love is like pi DK KD -- natural, irrational, and very important." DDDD -Lisa Hoffman From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Thu Nov 20 09:22:17 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:22:17 -0800 Subject: whitebox enterprise linux Message-ID: <20031120142217.GA29731@server.sunrise-linux.com> Can't remember if anybody has posted this link, but i found it this morning and with all the talk of rebuilding RHEL i thought it'd be useful. http://whiteboxlinux.org/ --snip This product is derived from the Free/Open Source Software made available by Red Hat, Inc but IS NOT produced, maintained or supported by Red Hat. Specifically, this product is forked from the source code for Red Hat's _Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3_ product under the terms and conditions of it's EULA. This is a pre-release copy of this exciting new variant product. Expect packaging problems and other odd bugs. These are solely the responsibility of the White Box Linux effort and should not in any shape, manner or form reflect on the quality of Red Hat's commercial product. In fact, if you need a fully tested and supported OS you probably should go buy their box set. --snip -miah From ron.peterson at yellowbank.com Sat Nov 22 20:26:57 2003 From: ron.peterson at yellowbank.com (ron.peterson at yellowbank.com) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:26:57 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> Message-ID: <20031123012657.GA7526@yellowbank.com> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 10:21:15PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > ron.peterson at yellowbank.com writes: > > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 08:05:22PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: > >> What is your definition of "free"? > > > > Everyone seems to have their own personal Jesus these days. And > > likewise with the definition of free. It's not that complicated. Just > > look the word up in a dictionary: > > I did. My definition is quite longer than your (or at least I'm > willing to not cut out some potentially irrelevant or complicating > definitions that don't happen to quite make my point). However in my > case it DOES make my point.. There are many definitions of "free". Sure there are. But in the context of the discussion, most are moot. It takes a pretty sophisticated argument to make the point that bitkeeper is 'free software'. Yes, you don't have to pay for it. That's one definition of free. But it's not the definition in common parlance in the software world. I'm sure you know that. -- Ron Peterson -o) 87 Taylor Street /\\ Granby, MA 01033 _\_v https://www.yellowbank.com/ ---- From warlord at MIT.EDU Sat Nov 22 20:53:17 2003 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:53:17 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20031123012657.GA7526@yellowbank.com> (ron peterson's message of "Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:26:57 -0500") References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> <20031123012657.GA7526@yellowbank.com> Message-ID: ron.peterson at yellowbank.com writes: > Sure there are. But in the context of the discussion, most are moot. Sure, the definition about sailing is moot, but that doesn't help. > It takes a pretty sophisticated argument to make the point that > bitkeeper is 'free software'. Yes, you don't have to pay for it. > That's one definition of free. Well, then, how more sophisticated do you need to get? You just made my point. You don't have to pay for bitkeeper. That's one definition of free. Therefore, bitkeeper is free. > But it's not the definition in common > parlance in the software world. I'm sure you know that. This all depends on who you talk to. Some people are more vehement than others about what they consider "free". That's why I asked the question. I think a number of people DO consider bitkeeper "free" -- it all depends on the beholder. WHICH IS WHY I ASKED what their definition of "free" is! -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From shark at ll.mit.edu Sun Nov 23 11:48:15 2003 From: shark at ll.mit.edu (Gregory Gimler) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:48:15 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20031123012657.GA7526@yellowbank.com> <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> <20031123012657.GA7526@yellowbank.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031123113245.01d49e80@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> My definition of free is quite simple. It means that my company does not have to pay for the software, which unfortunately doesn't appear to be the case for Bitkeeper. The software project I'm involved with is not open source. We're still at an early stage in the project consisting of requirements, design, and some minor proto-typing for POC issues. We chose CVS initially because most people on the team (including myself) is familiar with CVS and has used it on previous projects. I had a need to make my first branch on this proto-type the other day and realized some things I didn't like about CVS. A nasty part about branching is that the person who branches needs to keep track of a lot of stuff. As I've personally demonstrated in previous projects, this is problematic. There are branches there that I don't know what they are anymore. Worse, there is no way to tell their state (were the changes merged to the main trunk? When? Were changes made on the branch after that merge?...etc). CVS has fundamental issues which prevents it from being able to do these things for you. I'm trying to prevent these kinds of things from happening again. I have a better appreciation of why Linus moved the Linux kernel from CVS to Bitkeeper. -Greg At 08:53 PM 11/22/2003 -0500, Derek Atkins wrote: >ron.peterson at yellowbank.com writes: > > > Sure there are. But in the context of the discussion, most are moot. > >Sure, the definition about sailing is moot, but that doesn't help. > > > It takes a pretty sophisticated argument to make the point that > > bitkeeper is 'free software'. Yes, you don't have to pay for it. > > That's one definition of free. > >Well, then, how more sophisticated do you need to get? You just made >my point. > > You don't have to pay for bitkeeper. > That's one definition of free. > Therefore, bitkeeper is free. > > > But it's not the definition in common > > parlance in the software world. I'm sure you know that. > >This all depends on who you talk to. Some people are more vehement >than others about what they consider "free". That's why I asked the >question. I think a number of people DO consider bitkeeper "free" -- >it all depends on the beholder. WHICH IS WHY I ASKED what their >definition of "free" is! > >-derek > >-- > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH > warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From nmeyers at javalinux.net Sun Nov 23 12:24:27 2003 From: nmeyers at javalinux.net (nmeyers at javalinux.net) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:24:27 -0500 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031123113245.01d49e80@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> References: <200311192156.27968.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> <20031120081054.1b75b20b.gaf@blu.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20031121192006.01cb1828@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> <20031122020343.GA32633@yellowbank.com> <20031123012657.GA7526@yellowbank.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20031123113245.01d49e80@group33.llan.ll.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20031123172427.GA628@javalinux.net> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 11:48:15AM -0500, Gregory Gimler wrote: > I had a need to > make my first branch on this proto-type the other day and realized some > things I didn't like about CVS. There's a lot about CVS that's frustrating - just look at any project that claims to be a "better" CVS to see a good list. I'm pretty sure I've banged my head against every CVS limitation anyone's ever complained about :-). What has scared me away from migrating away from CVS is that it's a much more proven technology than most of the free alternatives. For this I put up with a lot of headaches - especially around branch management. One exception to the new-and-unproven thing is Aegis (http://aegis.sourceforge.net), which is so different from CVS that I haven't yet tried to take the leap. It's been around for awhile and is evidently pretty stable - one of these days I may try it on a new project to see how it feels. Nathan > > A nasty part about branching is that the person who branches needs to keep > track of a lot of stuff. As I've personally demonstrated in previous > projects, this is problematic. There are branches there that I don't know > what they are anymore. Worse, there is no way to tell their state (were the > changes merged to the main trunk? When? Were changes made on the branch > after that merge?...etc). CVS has fundamental issues which prevents it from > being able to do these things for you. I'm trying to prevent these kinds > of things from happening again. > > I have a better appreciation of why Linus moved the Linux kernel from CVS > to Bitkeeper. From smallm at panix.com Sun Nov 23 12:57:12 2003 From: smallm at panix.com (Mike Small) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:57:12 -0500 Subject: Reading Code Message-ID: <20031123175712.GA815@panix.com> Has anyone read the book Code Reading by Spinellis? Would you recommend it? I'm thinking I'd like to follow the advice in the preface about taking advantage of free software as an example to improve my own coding. Other than the examples in the book, can anyone recommend some small programs with especially elegant, readable code? -- Mike Small smallm at panix.com From drew at drewtaylor.com Mon Nov 24 10:16:38 2003 From: drew at drewtaylor.com (Drew Taylor) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:38 -0500 Subject: more sco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FC220D6.6000003@drewtaylor.com> Chris Devers wrote: > > Interesting :) > > Personally, I blame Drew Taylor. Go ahead! Everyone else already does. :-P From coolian69 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 24 10:32:16 2003 From: coolian69 at yahoo.com (Brendan) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:16 -0500 Subject: Hardware, what to do with extra? Message-ID: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> BLU, I have a problem, and it's "too much hardware". The holidays are coming up and I need to clear some space in my breakfast nook (currently occupied by about 400 lbs of metal servers) so I can put a high counter and tall stools in there. Where would I sell or give away server-style stuff to BLU people? I don't want to flood the list with crud (which I am partly doing right now), and searching for a place came up with nothing. Craig's list seems a tad too non-technical for this load of stuff I have, and I wouldn't mind a few opinions. Without further ado, here is a small list of the stuff I have piled up: 3 x quad Pentium one 3 foot tall, SCSI servers (packed full of mega amounts of RAM for its day 256 x 512MB, I think), 1 x 3 foot tall file server stuffed with SCSI disks, and piles of cables for it, DLT drive, a few dozen Linux-tested modems and sound cards, two routers, two cable modems, two 200MHz or so PCs, 3 Powermacs (newer style with 64MB+ RAM), DVD-ROM drive and CDRW-DVD drive, 21 inch monitor (IBM P202)... So, should I sell this stuff, give it away, blow it up, throw it under a train or recycle it? A tax write-off and/or selling this for cash would be great, but I will consider alternatives. My little fantasy is to give it to some kernel hackers (they provide the transportation) who will make the kernel run 20x faster on quad proc systems because of their new testing ground. Eh, it's a fantasy. Let me know what you think, Brendan From michael.white at adtrack.com Mon Nov 24 15:14:38 2003 From: michael.white at adtrack.com (Michael White) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:14:38 -0600 Subject: IPTables Newbie Message-ID: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com> Hello All, I'm new to LUG's, so I haven't had time to search the archives for this or a similar question. Please bear w/ me if I'm repeating a recently answered question as I'm in need of a quick resolution. I'm building an RH9 firewall/mailserver combo box for a small client. Sendmail appears to be running correctly in that I'm able to telnet to port 25 from an internal system. However, after performing the following commands, I'm unable to telnet to the same port from and external IP: IPTABLES -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ucp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT Am I going about this all wrong? Should I be entering the command differently? Because this client is basically has no budget, running the firewall and the mailserver on the same box is my only option. Any suggestions for resolving this problem are greatly appreciated? TIA, Michael White From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Mon Nov 24 21:20:56 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:20:56 -0800 Subject: IPTables Newbie In-Reply-To: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com> References: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com> Message-ID: <20031125022056.GC5798@server.sunrise-linux.com> Well, the first thing, you dont need -p UDP (not ucp) since smtp is only transfered over tcp. Do you have any other rules? iptables -n -L and send the output the list. -miah On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 02:14:38PM -0600, Michael White wrote: > Hello All, > > I'm new to LUG's, so I haven't had time to search the archives for this or a similar question. Please bear w/ me if I'm repeating a recently answered question as I'm in need of a quick resolution. > > I'm building an RH9 firewall/mailserver combo box for a small client. Sendmail appears to be running correctly in that I'm able to telnet to port 25 from an internal system. However, after performing the following commands, I'm unable to telnet to the same port from and external IP: > > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ucp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > > Am I going about this all wrong? Should I be entering the command differently? > Because this client is basically has no budget, running the firewall and the mailserver on the same box is my only option. Any suggestions for resolving this problem are greatly appreciated? > > TIA, > Michael White > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at blu.org > http://www.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From jullrich at sans.org Mon Nov 24 21:36:49 2003 From: jullrich at sans.org (Johannes B. Ullrich) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:36:49 -0500 Subject: Hardware, what to do with extra? In-Reply-To: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> References: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> Message-ID: <1069727809.16838.123.camel@bart> > So, should I sell this stuff, give it away, blow it up, throw it under a > train or recycle it? haha... just give it to me ;-). You can never be too good looking or have too much computer equipment. Sounds like much of what you have has real cash value, so I would go for the selling (ebay, swap meet) idea. > My little fantasy is to give it to some kernel hackers (they provide the > transportation) who will make the kernel run 20x faster on quad proc systems > because of their new testing ground. Eh, it's a fantasy. -- CTO SANS Internet Storm Center http://isc.sans.org phone: (617) 786 1563 fax: (617) 786 1550 jullrich at sans.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ed at eh3.com Mon Nov 24 22:12:12 2003 From: ed at eh3.com (Ed Hill) Date: 24 Nov 2003 22:12:12 -0500 Subject: IPTables Newbie In-Reply-To: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com> References: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com> Message-ID: <1069729932.13251.325.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 15:14, Michael White wrote: > > I'm building an RH9 firewall/mailserver combo box for a small > client. Sendmail appears to be running correctly in that I'm > able to telnet to port 25 from an internal system. However, > after performing the following commands, I'm unable to telnet > to the same port from and external IP: > > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ucp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > > Am I going about this all wrong? Should I be entering the > command differently? Hi Michael, Have you verified that sendmail is really listening to non-local hosts? If you're using the default Red Hat sendmail, then you'll need to edit the /etc/mail/sendmail.mc file so that you have: dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA')dnl so that it listens to all hosts. You should then, as root, run the "make -C /etc/mail" command and restart sendmail. good luck, Ed -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD office: MIT Dept. of EAPS; Room 54-1424; 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139-4307 email: eh3 at mit.edu, ed at eh3.com URL: http://web.mit.edu/eh3/ phone: 617-253-0098 fax: 617-253-4464 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bill at billhorne.homelinux.org Mon Nov 24 22:26:45 2003 From: bill at billhorne.homelinux.org (Bill Horne) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:26:45 -0500 Subject: IPTables Newbie In-Reply-To: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com>; from michael.white@adtrack.com on Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 02:14:38PM -0600 References: <685FCBF173A45A4BB99AA5CFCE01A07701E8C94A@ntserver00.adtrack.com> Message-ID: <20031124222645.A1690@billhorne.homelinux.org> On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 02:14:38PM -0600, Michael White wrote: > Hello All, > [snip] > I'm building an RH9 firewall/mailserver combo box for a small > client. Sendmail appears to be running correctly in that I'm able > to telnet to port 25 from an internal system. However, after > performing the following commands, I'm unable to telnet to the same > port from and external IP: > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ucp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > > Am I going about this all wrong? Should I be entering the command > differently? It's probably not an iptables issue. The default setup for sendmail restricts it to listening for connections from the "localhost" only, since it's usually used only for outgoing mail. Check the /etc/mail/sendmail.mc file, and search for the loopback address, which is "127.0.0.1". If you find it, remove the "Addr=127.0.0.1" option (it's a good idea to copy the line, and put "dnl" in front of the original to "comment it out", and then make your changes to the copy). You'll need to do a "make" after the change; just follow the example at the top of the file. After you create the new sendmail.cf, restart sendmail and you should be set. HTH. Bill Horne From david at thekramers.net Tue Nov 25 00:56:00 2003 From: david at thekramers.net (David Kramer) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:56:00 -0500 Subject: Hardware, what to do with extra? In-Reply-To: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> References: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> Message-ID: <200311250056.00514.david@thekramers.net> On Monday 24 November 2003 10:32, Brendan wrote: > 3 x quad Pentium one 3 foot tall, SCSI servers (packed full of mega amounts > of RAM for its day 256 x 512MB, I think), > 1 x 3 foot tall file server stuffed with SCSI disks, and piles of cables > for it, You need to come up with two prices for this stuff: a "friends and family and unemployed people in need" price and a "strangers" price. Cuz lots of people could use hardware like that, right here on this list (yo). > DLT drive, Worth some money, but worth a lot of karma for a sophisticated home user too. > a few dozen Linux-tested modems and sound cards, > two 200MHz or so PCs, > DVD-ROM drive and CDRW-DVD drive, These would be great to drag down to the next installfest > two routers, > two cable modems, Not sure of the value > 3 Powermacs (newer style with 64MB+ RAM), Lots of interest in this. Seriously, think about how much money you want for these. > 21 inch monitor (IBM P202)... Still good resale value there. Can you wait until the MIT Flea in April? That would be the best place to sell this stuff. I sold over $150 of stuff in October. > So, should I sell this stuff, give it away, blow it up, throw it under a > train or recycle it? A tax write-off and/or selling this for cash would be > great, but I will consider alternatives. Schools etc won't be able to use the multiprocessor boxen, but us Linux users can. Maybe the monitor though. > My little fantasy is to give it to some kernel hackers (they provide the > transportation) who will make the kernel run 20x faster on quad proc > systems because of their new testing ground. Eh, it's a fantasy. Wonder where Alan Cox lives.... How about opie.handhelds.org ? Or thekramers.net ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DDDD David Kramer david at thekramers.net http://thekramers.net DK KD DKK D "It goes without saying that you should never have more DK KD children than you have car windows." DDDD Erma Bombeck From 235u at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 09:18:59 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:18:59 -0500 Subject: atm Message-ID: <3FC364D3.6000306@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi, a while back we were yapping about banks using M$ products with atms. just as a follow up, i thought this article may interest some. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/34175.html ~ -eric. - -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/w2TTMb0VvwEIaEsRAl48AJ4zg3xZeFvziDRphifJ4j8bXeBsZQCfRYY1 j1A7m3ot1LKfZkDY0JakBjU= =XiP1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gboyce at badbelly.com Tue Nov 25 09:44:36 2003 From: gboyce at badbelly.com (gboyce at badbelly.com) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:44:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hardware, what to do with extra? In-Reply-To: <200311250056.00514.david@thekramers.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, David Kramer wrote: > > My little fantasy is to give it to some kernel hackers (they provide the > > transportation) who will make the kernel run 20x faster on quad proc > > systems because of their new testing ground. Eh, it's a fantasy. > > Wonder where Alan Cox lives.... Swansea, on the south coast of Wales. Shipping alone would be rather expensive. I used to read his weblog until he started writing it in welch. http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/ -- Greg From 235u at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 10:12:08 2003 From: 235u at comcast.net (eric) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:12:08 -0500 Subject: noob Q: tripwire email Message-ID: <3FC37148.9090304@comcast.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 hi, i'm playing with tripwire on my home machine and would like to have tripwire email me the .twr report that it's sending to /var/lib/tripwire/report. instead of configuring sendmail, which i'm not using for anything right now, can i just alter twcfg.txt on lines MAILMETHOD =SENDMAIL MAILPROGRAM =/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -t to get it to use mozilla mail? i already have changed the policy file concerning what violations to notify me of. thanks. -the chronic noobian, eric. - -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/w3FIMb0VvwEIaEsRAokXAJ9+/k+Yr748IXyywdOFPAEd2odAxQCeJmBr jqOUQnoMToa0gfj3CVcJ8e4= =JXlJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dsr at tao.merseine.nu Tue Nov 25 10:21:22 2003 From: dsr at tao.merseine.nu (dsr at tao.merseine.nu) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:21:22 +0000 Subject: noob Q: tripwire email In-Reply-To: <3FC37148.9090304@comcast.net> References: <3FC37148.9090304@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031125152122.GF12565@tao.merseine.nu> On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 10:12:08AM -0500, eric wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > hi, i'm playing with tripwire on my home machine and would like to have > tripwire email me the .twr report that it's sending to > /var/lib/tripwire/report. instead of configuring sendmail, which i'm > not using for anything right now, can i just alter twcfg.txt on lines > MAILMETHOD =SENDMAIL > MAILPROGRAM =/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -t > to get it to use mozilla mail? i already have changed the policy file > concerning what violations to notify me of. thanks. -the chronic Umm. That would be a mistake. Even on systems that don't use sendmail, there is a convention that there is a sendmail executable which will accept a message and send it to the local MTA (mail transport agent). mozilla isn't an MTA, it's an MUA (mail user agent). While it is conceivable that there is a command line option to send a mail message through it, that's not what it's designed for. If you don't like sendmail (and there are plenty of reasons not to like sendmail) then install smail, postfix, exim or qmail. -dsr- From zcerza at coe.neu.edu Tue Nov 25 13:45:54 2003 From: zcerza at coe.neu.edu (Zachary M. Cerza) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:45:54 -0500 Subject: ext3 partition hosed by PMP7 - all superblocks dead?!? Message-ID: <1069785954.3fc3a362530e8@www.coe.neu.edu> I have a drive with an NTFS partition and an ext3 partition. I recently began to run low on space in the ext3 partition. As I had plenty of room on the NTFS partition, I (foolishly) used Partition Magic 7 Pro to shrink the NTFS and grow the ext3. I found out much later (thanks google) that PM7 odesn't support ext3. Too bad the program itself didn't warn me. here's a rouch sketch ;) old layout: [----NTFS----][---ext3---][swap] new layout: [---NTFS---][----ext3----][swap] as you can see, the e3 part was resized *and* moved. Booting with a grub floppy (my usual method, long story as to why) failed miserably, so I grabbed my trusty Knoppix disc and booted off that. Running fsck.ext3 complained about the superblock, and suggested using the -b flag with various parameters. someone on IRC advised me to use (i think, can't remember now and I'm at work) mke2fs just to list the superblock locations. I tried all of them (12 or so), and they all failed the same way. This is bad. I'd really like to get that data back. I don't have enough space to dd a copy of the partition somewhere else, and if at all possible I'd like to avoid having to buy another drive just to do that. I found a tool called e2salvage that looks semi-promising, but I can't find any bootable CDs that include it (doh) and Knoppix and its ilk won't allow installing debs or compiling from source. In short, heeeelp!!! I'm open to all suggestions, from "try running foo from knoppix" to "go buy this commercial recovery program called bar." I'm sorry I can't give very specific error messages at the moment, I'm away from the computer and am about to go out of town for a week. I can check mail from where I'll be, but I obviously can't ssh into this hosed system :) From gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com Tue Nov 25 21:13:54 2003 From: gbburkhardt at aaahawk.com (Glenn Burkhardt) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 21:13:54 -0500 Subject: IPTables Newbie Message-ID: <200311252113.55424.gbburkhardt@aaahawk.com> > I'm building an RH9 firewall/mailserver combo box for a small client. = > Sendmail appears to be running correctly in that I'm able to telnet to = > port 25 from an internal system. However, after performing the = > following commands, I'm unable to telnet to the same port from and = > external IP: > > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT > IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ucp --dport 25 -j ACCEPT Wouldn't have a clue about iptables commands - I use 'Shorewall'; it's all nicely laid out, and easy to configure. I've also switched from Sendmail to Postfix; it's configuration is also much more straight forward. From gaf at blu.org Wed Nov 26 07:04:34 2003 From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:04:34 -0500 Subject: ext3 partition hosed by PMP7 - all superblocks dead?!? In-Reply-To: <1069785954.3fc3a362530e8@www.coe.neu.edu> References: <1069785954.3fc3a362530e8@www.coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <20031126070434.3f9b35a8.gaf@blu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:45:54 -0500 "Zachary M. Cerza" wrote: > I have a drive with an NTFS partition and an ext3 partition. I > recently began to run low on space in the ext3 partition. As I had > plenty of room on the NTFS partition, I (foolishly) used Partition > Magic 7 Pro to shrink the NTFS and grow the ext3. I found out much > later (thanks google) that PM7 odesn't support ext3. Too bad the > program itself didn't warn me. PM7 supports ext2. Your ext3 journals will be no good. Your booting will be messed up. But, Knoppix can help. You can mount your ext3 partition, do a chroot, and rebuild your GRUB stuff. I'm out the door and don't have time for more. - -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/xJbS+wA+1cUGHqkRApKNAJ44cvbmZ5JXiYproztlsoHh3i6dGQCaA916 ohGvojBpTOGBhuRl04sEukk= =25dt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com Wed Nov 26 14:46:38 2003 From: jjohnson at sunrise-linux.com (miah) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:46:38 -0800 Subject: BBLISA: EIDE drive in a Pent II system with old bios; compant is LONG out of In-Reply-To: References: <20031126173301.3A8357FCAA@server2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20031126194638.GA22512@server.sunrise-linux.com> He already said that the drive works fine in his old P1 system. I think the point is he'd like the drive to work in his current P2 system which the better of the two computers that he has at home. -miah On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 01:51:22PM -0500, Dima wrote: > The point is, you need to pay for this, either > with your money or with your time. Money-consuming > suggestions you saw already. Now time consuming: > Collect all of your stuff and come to my house. We > will hook your drive up to the computer which will > understand it, will copy its content away and then > you will be free to play with your hardware as you > see fit. > > Resources needed: > > Money: $0. > Time: lots. > > -------------- > > Dimitri (Dima) Shcherban > > Phone: 800-445-2588+3+36955 > or: 508-898-6955 > Westborough ext: [823]-36955 > Cellular: 508-889-4918 > email: dima at emc.com > > > > --- > Send mail for the `bblisa' mailing list to `bblisa at bblisa.org'. > Mail administrative requests to `majordomo at bblisa.org'. From richb at pioneer.ci.net Wed Nov 26 23:10:26 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:10:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dell's $274 server Message-ID: <13408.66.31.42.38.1069906226.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Over the past week, I have built a new file server for a local company based on the Dell PowerEdge 400SC box. This is the one currently offered at $274 (after $100 rebate, with free shipping) at dell.com. I had my doubts about basing a mission-critical business on a sub-$300 box, but the system's now up and running. Here's what I got from Dell: - Chassis w/250W power supply (a mid-tower with room for 4 3.5" drives and 2 5.25" drives, rail-mounted rather than screw-mounted i.e. a real server chassis) - 2GHz Celeron - 40Gb drive - *No* O/S (i.e. no royalty to Microsoft) Here's what I added to it for about $500 (from Microcenter or equivalent): - Second 40Gb drive and two 160Gb drives - 1Gb RAM It came with a CDROM but I disconnected that after running the installation, to make room for a RAID1 array of 40G+160G on the system's IDE bus. (Purists can take advantage of a 4-channel RAID controller deal that Dell's offering, but I didn't see the need for it in this case.) I downloaded Redhat 9 as 3 ISO images, made CDs and had the system up and running in 2 hours from the time I unpacked it. At installation, I found it easy to configure LVM-over-RAID (as compared to SuSE 8.2, which didn't seem to be quite so simple at the time--but that was before I had the experience with RAID that I now do). One note about Redhat, though: its installation script only supports ext3 filesystems, and you can't interrupt it to create them by hand. I wanted reiserfs, so I wound up using that only for the user partitions but not for the root filesystem. I'm used to getting truly cheap junk in the sub-$400 category; opening up a typical Powerspec or Compaq econobox reveals a lot of corners cut in terms of power, cooling, upgradeability. But this one has four DIMM slots, a well-made easy-open hinged chassis, a medium-grade power supply (not the 350W I'd prefer but better than the 180W in my most recent Powerspec), and 1-year onsite warranty service. For the price of a new motherboard/processor and hard drive, you get a chassis/keyboard/mouse/CDROM for free. If you're looking to upgrade your tired-but-trusty 600MHz Pentium III, or buy someone a quality Xmas gift on the cheap, maybe now's the time to surf over to Dell. (No I don't hold any stock there, just know a good deal when I see one...;-) Just don't get sucked in by the convenience of their configurator aka profit generator--buy the upgrades like memory and disk storage from your friendly local store. -rich From cdevers at pobox.com Thu Nov 27 02:56:06 2003 From: cdevers at pobox.com (Chris Devers) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:56:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hardware, what to do with extra? In-Reply-To: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> References: <200311241032.16642.mailinglist@endosquid.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Brendan wrote: > Where would I sell or give away server-style stuff to BLU people? I > don't want to flood the list with crud (which I am partly doing right > now), and searching for a place came up with nothing. Craig's list seems > a tad too non-technical for this load of stuff I have, and I wouldn't > mind a few opinions. Well, I like the Craigslist ads, and have used the site to buy my last three computers, but YMMV. The Greater Boston Reuse list is also pretty good: GreaterBoston-reuse is a resource for folks exchanging free items within the Boston metro area. (This list owes a conceptual debt to the "reuse" mailing list at MIT, which is officially restricted to current affiliates of that institution.) If you have stuff to clear out of your house or apartment, or you scrounged a great find at the town transfer station but you can't figure out what to do with it, or you notice something cool at curbside which you don't want to go to waste -- let the list know. The idea is to find reuseable items the best possible homes. (Further info is at .) The list is pretty quiet -- people tend to post an item up for grabs, and responses almost always happen off-list -- but there's a steady stream of traffic, and interesting things come up from time to time. I got a barely used Sun monitor via gb-reuse from someone at MIT a few months ago, and similar hardware also comes up from time to time. Something BLU-centric might be nice, but making a pre-existing resource better by pooling with it might be better still. Then again, more people claiming things might make the resource frustrating, but that doesn't seem like a bad problem to have :) -- Chris Devers From richb at pioneer.ci.net Thu Nov 27 14:04:14 2003 From: richb at pioneer.ci.net (Rich Braun) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:04:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Directory for user authentication? Message-ID: <17446.66.31.42.38.1069959854.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> I haven't seen much discussion of this topic here, but I'd love to share info about setting up single-signon capability for a small company. Today the company lives with a less-than-acceptable solution: files are read/write to anyone (the equivalent of handing root out to the whole staff), and various apps that require usernames are configured separately with no attempt to synchronize passwords. I proposed using Samba as the authenticator because I know how it works, and can get it tied in with NIS. But the world's gone Microsoft so that may not be the best solution (Microsoft has various annoying client-license restrictions which prevent Samba from being what I want it to be). I want to present the company with a single application that can authenticate from a master user list the following apps: sshd imapd windows login smb shares MySQL bugzilla cvs Apache httpd (in lieu of those annoying .htpasswd files) Someone at the company suggested LDAP, which is currently in place for only one app (imapd). Where should I begin to learn about Unix PAM, LDAP, and Micro$oft directory services? Is the state of the art in this technology just as much of a mess as it was when we contemplated this at ShoreNet 3 or 4 years ago? Is this a 6-month ordeal, or can it be done in a matter of a week of downloading/rebuilding apps? -rich From jullrich at sans.org Thu Nov 27 15:14:23 2003 From: jullrich at sans.org (Johannes B. Ullrich) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:14:23 -0500 Subject: Directory for user authentication? In-Reply-To: <17446.66.31.42.38.1069959854.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> References: <17446.66.31.42.38.1069959854.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: <1069964062.4918.286.camel@bart> > Someone at the company suggested LDAP, which is currently in place for only > one app (imapd). Where should I begin to learn about Unix PAM, LDAP, and > Micro$oft directory services? LDAP is a good start. For the Linux part, a lot of the integration can be done using the pam ldap module. The Linux software you mention (openssh, imap, pop, samba) should be able to use pam for authentication. There are replacements for the Windows 2k authentication that will work with Linux LDAP servers (pgina.xpasystems.com I think). I think recent versions of Samba make a decent domain controller. There have been some limitations (e.g. interactions with Exchange servers... ) this may be fixed in more recent versions, or it may not matter to you. A couple other systems to consider for single signon are Radius and Kerberos. Radius is nice in particular if you are looking for something that supports strong authentication (e.g. Cryptocard). But these solutions are usually a bit pricy and may be overkill for a small company (count on $50-$100 per user). -- CTO SANS Internet Storm Center http://isc.sans.org phone: (617) 786 1563 fax: (617) 786 1550 jullrich at sans.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jrvz at comcast.net Sat Nov 29 10:12:16 2003 From: jrvz at comcast.net (James R. Van Zandt) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:12:16 -0500 Subject: Dell's $274 server In-Reply-To: <13408.66.31.42.38.1069906226.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> (richb@pioneer.ci.net) References: <13408.66.31.42.38.1069906226.squirrel@envoy.ci.net> Message-ID: "Rich Braun" writes: >opening up a typical Powerspec or Compaq econobox reveals a lot of >corners cut in terms of power, cooling, upgradeability. But this one >has ... a medium-grade power supply (not the 350W I'd prefer but >better than the 180W in my most recent Powerspec) > ... >buy the upgrades like memory and disk storage from your friendly >local store. I've heard Dell uses nonstandard pinout for their motherboard power connector, so you can't keep their motherboard and get an upgraded power supply elsewhere, or vice-versa. (Trying it will fry something, and probably probably voids the warranty too.) Can you confirm this for your new system? - Jim Van Zandt From william_holt at speakeasy.net Sun Nov 30 20:51:15 2003 From: william_holt at speakeasy.net (Bill Holt) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:51:15 +0000 Subject: cyrus (berkeley db) Message-ID: Hello everyone, while trying to login in cyradm, I got hung at the command prompt. This is the problem: (from /var/log/messages) Nov 30 20:33:04 mail ctl_cyrusdb[8912]: incorrect version of Berkeley db: compiled against 4.1.25, linked against 4.0.14 Now, I installed 4.1.25, and compiled cyrus against it, and it is in my share libraries configuration, my question is how did it end up being linked against 4.0.14? Also, I should be able to change the links with no ill effects, correct? Thank you in advance for any leads...