Boston Linux & Unix (BLU) Home | Calendar | Mail Lists | List Archives | Desktop SIG | Hardware Hacking SIG
Wiki | Flickr | PicasaWeb | Video | Maps & Directions | Installfests | Keysignings
Linux Cafe | Meeting Notes | Blog | Linux Links | Bling | About BLU

BLU Discuss list archive


[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[Discuss] more on software patent



On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Kyle Leslie <fbxxkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok well to give you the scope of what I am looking at, here are the public
> records for the Lawsuit
> http://ia600700.us.archive.org/22/items/gov.uscourts.wiwd.30864/gov.uscourts.wiwd.30864.docket.html
>
> and here is the claim of the patent which is numbered (the very last number)
> of this particular patent
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5546397.PN.&OS=PN/5546397&RS=PN/5546397
>
> 21. The high reliability access point of claim 2 further including a back-up
> power source.
>
> If you look at the court case it doesn't say anything about which parts of
> the claim they are acting on it just says they are using these exhibits .
> So perhaps its a different part.? It was not meant to be a direct example in
> this case but an example of what is possible from this case.

That's part of the litigation strategy.  If you've ever sued or get
sued, you would know that many of the particulars are not pleaded in
the initial complaint.  It often takes years for the court to figure
out whether the allegation stands or not.

> These small business' (and large ones) are being sued because they are
> providing wifi internet access.? That means airlines can be sued now right
> (and you and I if they so please)?? They provide wifi with internet access.
> Now from the looks of it, they aren't going after residential people (I
> assume because we don't profit from people connecting to our wifi).? The
> thing that confuses me is that these places generally aren't charging you
> for the use of the device but the internet that it distributes.? Along the
> lines of what everyone else is saying (and Cisco and Motorola have come to
> the defense of these companies). These people or companies should not be
> paying the bill for using a device they bought a Best Buy.? If I go out and
> buy Macrosoft Windows instead of Microsoft Windows but I don't know any
> better Microsoft should not be able to tell me that I owe them for the
> software they have patents for because I am using it.

What patent and copyright infringement suits can do is to 1) seek
monetary damage from the infringing party, and/or 2) stop the
infringing party from practicing.  These patent trolls are not really
serious about either one of them.  Patent trolls file suits because
they want to settle for less of the cost for defending a patent suit.
The courts are well aware of this litigation strategy.  I believe
there's at least one Federal appellate court opinion has addressed
this (sorry cannot think of the case name on top of my head).  I also
believe that there are rules to prevent and punish attorneys from
bringing frivolous suits.  Let's watch what the court would do to this
particular case.

> Now in relation to software patents, I have become a recent fan of Hardware
> hacking I frequent these types of sites all the time.? People are often
> times coding inputs and outputs for Arduino boards and so forth.? Now in
> essence if they were take these devices that they create and patent them
> (which they don't so that they can stay Open Source).? I can't go back and
> recreate that or do anything that the has been patented with out direct
> permission from (or payment to) the holder of the patent.? Now if Arduino
> has created a device that only accepts a particular piece of code and that
> is held in a patent, I then lose the functionality I am looking for before I
> even had a chance.

In theory, yes.  But to bar anyone from doing anything, the patent
holder would have to ask a court to issue an order.  As many BLU
members have already pointed out, patent litigation is extremely
expensive.  So, if you are not using a patented technology to the
extent worth being sued, most patent holders would simply keep silent
and wouldn't bother bring a suit.

> In some cases this may work, but I think my issue with the patents is where
> do you stop?? There are no lines that can be drawn which creates a gapping
> hole in the entire system.? In my example for the wireless AP, this person
> literally added a backup power source to the the wireless ap and that can be
> acted on as a patent infringment.? No person can make a "21. The high
> reliability access point of claim 2 further including a back-up power
> source" with out being sued.? That is a humongously broad statement because
> if you look at the "Claim 2" this high reliability source is any access
> point (from claim 1) is that is wired to a "host network".? Hey (insert
> anything here) you are currently infringing on this patent if you have a
> wireless AP with a backup power source connected to your wired network.

We look at "independent" claims first before looking at "dependent"
claims.  Dependent claims incorporate all claim limitations from all
the preceding claims upon which it depends.  In this case, claim 1 is
an INDEPENDENT claim, while claim 2 is a DEPENDENT claim.  So, claim 2
is read to include ALL the limitations recited in claim 1 AND the
limitations recited in claim 2.

> The worst part is this particular company isn't even the "innovator" here.
> They are a company that is looking to make money simply by enforcing a
> patent they acquired from Broadcom (who also wasn't the original owner).
> The worst part is from the article this person is sueing as many people as
> possible with low dollar amounts because it will be cheaper for them to pay
> up instead of defend themselves.? That is the most disgusting part because
> it shows its clearly a financial gain and absolutely zero other motive.

Unfortunately, this happens when someone is really good at playing
with the system.  In the business world, people would do whatever
within the boundary of relevant laws to gain a profit, and the patent
system is not alone.



BLU is a member of BostonUserGroups
BLU is a member of BostonUserGroups
We also thank MIT for the use of their facilities.

Valid HTML 4.01! Valid CSS!



Boston Linux & Unix / webmaster@blu.org