Fwd: Small Form Factor PCs

[markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org (Mark Woodward)]

On 06/13/2011 02:26 PM, Chris O'Connell wrote:
> Yeah, sorry about the Windows question,  I figured I could tap into 
> the knowledge of the group.  I recently purchased a pair of the Genesi 
> Smarttops that run Ubuntu for another small "appliance" type project 
> I'm creating.  I love Linux too, but sometimes it's not the right fit 
> for every job/project.

Well, I was being a little flip as is my sense of humor, unfortunately, 
humor does not always translate over email.

On a technical note, I have been down the road of "productizing" 
windows/hardware, and you'd be very surprised at how difficult it really 
is. If you use Windows on a regular basis, make a mental note of when 
and where you have small little events that need minor attention. These 
are seeming non-issues to a user, but to a system that is intended to 
operate "automation" you'll quickly find that it doesn't work in 
practice. Also, if you are using a third party app on Windows in this 
environment, you'll find that Windows programs don't really do well in 
this environment. Yea, sure, it will work when you set it up, but over 
time, it'll just stop working.

If this is a serious project, take it from someone who really knows, 
Windows is not where you want to be. I guess you could charge money for 
periodic maintenance and reboot the device every month or so.

>
> The Genesi boxes would be a perfect solution, except that due to the 
> processor being ARM based I don't think I could install my OS of 
> choice for this particular project.
>
> The name of the software is HomeSeer.  HomeSeer allows for the control 
> of everything from light switches, thermometers, fans, electrical 
> outlets, cameras, thermostats... etc, all through one central 
> administration system.  My friend who has been experimenting with 
> Homeseer says there are some Linux alternatives, but none work as well 
> or as reliably as the Windows software.  There's been some talk about 
> virtualizing this software, but IMO that's just one more thing to break.
>
> So again, sorry about asking for a Windows specific solution, but my 
> question is really more about a small form factor than an operating 
> system specific computer.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!  I'll check out the links you sent me.
>
> --Chris
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Mark Woodward <markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org 
> <mailto:markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 06/13/2011 08:28 AM, Chris O'Connell wrote:
>>     1)  This is something I would like to productize eventually.
>     If this is so, an up-front investment in sing Linux will be make
>     your life much simpler.
>
>>     2)  Preferably Windows XP or Windows 7.
>
>     Ok, so it isn't too specifically Windows. Depending on I/O
>     requirements it may be possible to use Linux with Wine.
>
>
>>     3)  That's what the home automation software runs on.  I didn't
>>     write it.
>     Which software is it? Is it for X10 hardware or something else?
>
>
>>     4)  I want something small with maybe 2GB ram, 16GB of storage,
>>     hard wired 100MB ethernet (or more).  I want something prebuilt
>>     (IE, I don't want to have to assemble myself).
>     There are a lot of these systems available. The embedded market
>     has some keep and small PC type computers.
>
>>
>>     The FIT-PC seems to be pretty good, but it's price preloaded with
>>     Windows on it ($500 is the cut off point).  This little start up
>>     project is going to cost me at least 1,000-1,200 with all the
>>     accessories.
>
>     There are a lot of small systems available, here's two
>
>     http://www.amazon.com/Athlon-1-5GHz-Barebone-System-ZBOXHD-AD01/dp/B0043DMPTO
>     http://www.mini-box.com/Car-PC-Automotive-Computing-Solutions
>>     Chris
>
>     One last postscript. IMHO and this being a Linux/UNIX mailing
>     list, you should really try to go Linux on this. It opens up far
>     more possibilities. I'm not sure what home office automation
>     software you are using, but I'd be quite surprised if there were
>     not an equivalent system on Linux. Then, when you productize, you
>     don't have to buy a Windows license for each unit.
>
>     Also, there are a bunch of guys on this board that are really
>     smart, and I bet we'd have a bit more emotional investment in
>     helping you succeed if you weren't using Windows :-)
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>     On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Mark Woodward
>>     <markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org <mailto:markw-FJ05HQ0HCKaWd6l5hS35sQ at public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         On 06/12/2011 10:31 AM, Chris O'Connell wrote:
>>
>>             ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>             From: Chris O'Connell<omegahalo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
>>             <mailto:omegahalo-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>>
>>             Date: Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:49 PM
>>             Subject: Small Form Factor PCs
>>             To: blu<discuss-mNDKBlG2WHs at public.gmane.org <mailto:discuss-mNDKBlG2WHs at public.gmane.org>>
>>
>>
>>             I'm looking for a very small form factor computer to
>>             install some home
>>             automation software on.  The software is not very
>>             resource intensive.  Here
>>             are the key requirements for the system:
>>             1.  Must be able to power back up  without human
>>             intervention if power to
>>             the unit is lost.
>>             2.  Should be small and less energy intensive than a
>>             regular PC.
>>             3.  I would like it to be less than $500.
>>             4.  Must be capable of running Windows (so either an AMD
>>             or INTEL cpu).
>>
>>             Can anyone make any suggestions about what might work
>>             well for me?  I was
>>             looking at the Dell Zino, but am unsure if a better
>>             option exists.
>>
>>         I know I replied once already, I want to ask a quick couple
>>         questions.
>>
>>         (1) Is this a on-off or do you intend to productize your system?
>>         (2) What version of Windows? You can use Wince.
>>         (3) umm, why Windows?
>>         (4) What do you expect for $500, a full PC or just the
>>         components. $500 is, IMHO a very generous number.
>>         (5) If this is a one-off, I have a VIA-800 miniitx
>>         motherboard with 512M of ram and an IDE compact flash adapter
>>         that makes a neat little  pseudo-embedded disk-free system
>>         that was removed from my robot last year. I could probably
>>         let it go for $100 bucks with a standard ATX power supply.
>>
>>
>>         With regards to #1, if you are going to product-ize this, you
>>         may want to consider a lower cost platform such as ARM.
>>         With regards to #3 and maybe #1, unless there is a REALLY
>>         specific need, Windows is a very poor platform for this type
>>         of application.
>>
>>         Also, take a look at www.mini-itx.com <http://www.mini-itx.com>
>>
>>
>
>